Trinity College of Biblical Studies

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Plain Old Bill, Dec 17, 2006.

  1. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
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    Okay guys here's one for you all to go over and check out,"Trinity College of Biblical Studies" out of India.Here is thier site:http://www.thefishersofmenministries.com/Undergraduate.htm

    The whole education is FREE(no Foolin) at the undergrad level(not even a registration fee).The staff seems qualified but I will leave that to you guys to tell me. The rigor seems to be there.I did notice that thier lower (1st 2yr) courses were all 100 series and upper (3rd and 4rth yr)200 series.It took a minute to figure out, at first I though they were only going to the associate level.There is no cost for books, all materials and lectures are provided online or by mail.

    Anyhow take a look ,I think I may have found something good here.:godisgood:
     
  2. PreachTREE

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    The link posted above is a school based out of Michigan.

    I believe you meant this http://www.trinitytheology.org/

    On paper (or at least e-paper...haha) it looks all good. Anyone with experience with this?
     
  3. Plain Old Bill

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    As a matter of fact I did. thanks!:godisgood:
     
  4. JonC

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    This school is not listed in our data base as accredited (we do have Trinity Theological Seminary and College of the Bible, but it’s a different school).

    It’s also not listed in IPEDS or CHEA.

    http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation.
     
  5. PreachTREE

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    I'm sure those agencies only have jurisdiction over US institutions. This is Trinity is based out of India.
     
  6. UZThD

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    free at what cost?

    I suggest we consider foreign schools which are GAAP(Generally accepted accrediting principles) to do serious grad level studies in the most important topic which can be studied. I understand (from Bear'sGuide) that a school's GAAP can be determined by ,eg, consulting The International Handbook of Universities.


    Free is only a good price if that which is free is good.

    This school offers ten docs in Biblical-Theological study. But has even one faculty member of this school completed a doc in Bib/Theol at a school recognized as the equivalent of the USA sort of accreditation?

    This is not snobbery, for some schools in Europe, Australia, and South Africa regularly are afforded this recognition! So it's not a matter of USA or no way!

    This issue is quality, not just cost. But what is quality?

    I know what it is not: I have had discussions with one member now on this faculty of the India based school when he came two or so years ago on degreeinfo to defend Golden State..from which he has the DRE (taking the easier way), and he was on the GS faculty then. He chose the easier route to prepare to teach (a GS doc) and he defended the easier route for others as the following illustrates:

    We at DI were criticizing GS because that seminary awarded a doc to one whose dissertation (then available on the web) was 50 pages of rambling comments on Ephesians which affected the text with all the competence of hunting cape buffalo with a BB gun.

    In addition to defending GS for its slovenly approach to scholarship ( dramatically and convincingly demonstrated by said dissertation passing muster), the then, GS faculty person claimed that a certain accredited school had a policy of accepting GS credits. I spoke with the registrar of that RA school who denied that claim.

    So, what is a mark of quality in grad education in Bib/Theol? It is NOT avoiding short cuts in scholarship.

    While I know of no free source of a good grad level programs in Bib/Theol, I do know of inexpensive ones. Public universities in South Africa offer distance ed ThD tuition as low as $3000 for the several years of doc studies.

    Of course there are disadvantages to the SA approach. These unis actually make the assumptions that ONLY if one has

    (1) done an accredited masters,

    (2) acquired languages necessary to the research,

    (3) before completed an academic thesis showing the ability to do scholarly research,

    (4) the wherewithal to convince a promoter (committee chairman) that one can well-research a worthy topic,

    (5) the scholarly skill to convince a committee composed of members of the faculties of three universities , (who all actually have accredited docs and so know what good research actually looks like) , that the dissertational research done is done with the rigor of accredited doc work, one should NOT BE AWARDED THE DEGREE!

    How narrow minded ?

    So, cost in grad studies in Bib/Theol is to be measured not just in $ , but in effort.

    I expect that those wishing to spend the very minimum in both will be very interested in this India school.
     
    #6 UZThD, Dec 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2006
  7. Broadus

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    UZThD is right on the mark. I realize that his response (and my approval of it) can be open to the charge of academic snobbery, but such a charge is judging one's motives. Our Lord, in the oft-misapplied Matthew 7:1, forbids that practice.

    Based upon previous posts, UZThD, as well as others posting in this forum, are interested in the quality of training that those preparing for the high calling of the ministry receive. If one wants Bible institute-level training, that is all well and good as long as one doesn't receive a doctorate for doing it.

    My encouragement is that we not take short cuts or easy routes. If I am charged with academic snobbery, so be it.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
  8. Rhetorician

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    UZThD & Broadus Reponse

    Hey Gang,

    I have been charged with "academic snobbery" before. That is OK because I guess "I resemble that remark!":smilewinkgrin:

    I say AMEN to what the both of you have said. Getting institute training could be used for certain areas of ministry I presume. But, why would anyone want to limit their future opportunities b/c of some "church school" or "free school!"?

    Why too would someone want to do a degree over or not get credit for the degree work already done? or if the Lord were to lead to an RA or ATS school?

    Seems awfully shortsighted on so many levels to me. But, then again I have tried and failed many-a-time to make my case and have been pooh-poohed!

    The bottom-line I suppose is that we all must give account of ourselves to the Lord! I would rather stand there having what I believe to be the best education rather than to have "cut corners" handling "The Word of Life." Especially, it I had led a congregation or had taught young people in college or seminary.

    My two cents (and it may not be worth that!).:tongue3:

    sdg!:thumbsup:

    rd
     
  9. TomVols

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    I would agree, but I would also caution that some unaccredited schools have rigorous requirements (Columbia Evangelical Seminary comes to mind). While these degrees have limitations, they may well serve someone who will is limited due to providential circumstances.

    I know nothing of this Trinity in India, save for what I've seen on the website. It would be most helpful to talk to someone with experience.
     
  10. Plain Old Bill

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    My hope was that the wiser heads would take an honest look into this school,that is why I gave the site address: http://www.trinitytheology.org

    They list the faculty with access to the faculty credentials and background as well as other information about books and articles that have been written in magazines and journals as well as other posts they have served.

    Now I did take the time to look into some of that and also went over the requirements for an introductory OT Survey undergraduate class.I can honestly say that it is far tougher than anything I took at U of Md.

    I truly don't mind if you are critical of this school after taking:godisgood: an honest in depth look. I have no vested interest. My interest is that this school looks pretty good on the surface and it could be of service to those who do not have the financial means to go elsewhere.We could be doing folks a dis-service by not taking a good look.
     
  11. Lagardo

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    The easy way out is always tempting. I am not saying that you would not learn something from this school, but it does not appear to be anything close to what you would get from a traditional seminary.

    Of course, you asked for an in-depth look, so here goes:

    The Faculty -- A big difference I see right away is the maxim "Publish or Perish" does not seem to apply. Most traditional seminaries will be glad to tell you what, where, and when each professor has been published. Degrees are lacking too. Some profiles list an educational background and some do not. Many of the doctorates are from this school. Each professor has an alphabet after his name, but little information is given. I also notice there is not a single language or biblical studies professor.

    Accreditation -- The school is accredited by International Council for Accrediting Alternate and Theological Studies...an organization whose website offers virtually no information short of links to wikipedia...this seems odd for an academic institution.
    The sentence, "Most evangelical and conservative institutions recognize degrees granted by each others -- whether affiliated or not." is concerning. I can almost guarantee that most traditional seminaries will not recognize these degrees.

    Degree Programs -- The degree programs are nothing like what you would get at a traditional seminary. There is no study of greek and hebrew, and very, very little theological and biblical studies. There are a lot of topical courses, but you would not be getting near the foundation a traditional seminary would offer. The "rigor" is not the same as an MDIV at this school is a 2 year degree...most are 3 year. The DMIN is also a 2 year course. That comes in awfully short of most seminaries.

    Textbooks -- They are placed on CD's and mailed to you. This is certainly cost-saving, as they are free, but what are they? Obviously, they are either public domain or written in-house. Again, I'm not saying you won't learn from them, but do they compare to the books many of us paid hundreds for? I doubt it.

    Journal -- The Journal has some interesting articles, but none are what I would expect from the journal of a seminary.

    While I was looking over this website, I began to wonder what someone might think of the following conversation. Imagine you are new to the area and are getting a check-up to get "established" with your family doctor.

    you: So where did you go to Med School, Doc?
    Doc: Oh, I just got my degree online. It was free, and I didn't have to move or change my life one bit to take the classes. It only took a fraction of the time. I know it sounds different, but really, why should I have to pay all that money and study so long just to help sick people?

    I know, I know, the doctor still would have had to pass the boards, so maybe he's still qualified, but that's not my point. My point is, that at this point you are probably not too impressed or even hopeful about this doctor. So my question is, why is ministry less important?

    The traditional seminaries are not filled with the independently wealthy. Most struggle to get by. Most students have sacrificed a great deal to be there. My guess is that there are plenty of students that would be just like you (age, money, situation, whatever) that get through just fine. No, you shouldn't go to a traditional, accredited school just because of the name, or the possibilites the degree offers. You shouldn't get a free degree just because of the alphabet, either. However, your preparation for ministry is important, and worth your best.

    If you are getting a degree because you feel it will open doors for you, this isn't the place for you. If you are getting a degree to learn and prepare for ministry, I think you can do better.
     
  12. Plain Old Bill

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    Actually I am taking courses a couple of different schools niether are involved with this school in any way.I'm 61 and will probably always be a student. Letters are not important to me.If I should end up getting some kind of degree it will probably be semi-accidental. I do have a program of personal learning that I am following.I will take courses of study that will give me the knowledge I seek.

    I do thank you for taking the time to go to the sight and dig around a little and give me your view, that is just what I was looking for , and is deeply appreciated.


    :godisgood:
     
  13. UZThD

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    SHORT CUTS:

    ) A ThM entered with a secular masters!

    2) A ThD entered w-out a ThM!

    3) Evidencing rigor by student papers and not by stating school requirements!

    4) Doing the same sort of stuff in the ThD that is done in the ThM (egApol 1, Apol 4, Theol 1) THEOLOGY ONE IN A THD????

    5) Offering docs in Bib/Theol when the faculty has not done accred docs in Bib/Theol

    6) having no reqs in languages

    7) a two year ThD

    Personal development? Fine and good.

    Grad work in Theology? "Here comes Santa Claus, here comes Santa Claus.."

    And the pastor said, "In closing let's sing number 247 'Take Time To Be Holy.' " Then added, "For time's sake, let's sing only verses one and four."

    Neither are the THM/THDs only two verses!
     
  14. Plain Old Bill

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    They seem to use mostly public domain material. Can a person get a good Bible and theological education from public domain materials?

    :godisgood:
     
  15. webdog

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