Trinity, Wales and the BBC

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Siberian, Nov 26, 2008.

  1. Siberian

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  2. Dr. Bob

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    Bowing to the gods of academia. Notice - The Quality Assurance Agency, which regulates universities in the UK, said it released a statement in July which warned higher education institutions "that they should not be collaborating with organisations that are not accredited".

    So any US schools that aren't "accredited" are automatically "bad" and should not have credits or degree work transfered to British schools. That is truly sad.

    I had a non-accredited BA and transferred to a US state university without prejudice. Glad I don't live in England. :(
     
  3. Mr. E

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    TTS and Wales

    Hi Everyone!
    I wonder why a college would need the Wales validation if they were already accredited? Perhaps this is a move by the QAA to keep Wales from providing a legitamate alternative to accrediting bodies. Seems to me that some of the big guys could be losing some $$$ if Wales continues to validate institutions under their charter.

    I am disappointed for Trinity and especially for the students who were enrolled in this program. Trinity's faculty is, for the most part, well credentialled and their programs appear to be at a decent academic level for theological education. I hope that they continue on their path and overcome the challenges of their problemic past issues.

    TTS faculty refs:
    http://www.trinitysem.edu/Faculty/index.html

    TTS progams of study:
    http://www.trinitysem.edu/DegreePrograms/DegreePrograms.html
     
  4. Martin

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    I am glad Trinity is final being exposed. They have cut corners for years and managed to sneak by with it. I am glad the BBC did this story, I am glad Wales has pulled its name from Trinity, and I pray that Trinity either goes out of business or gets its act together soon.

    Btw, the BBC needs to get some better streaming software. It took me almost ten minutes to watch that video.
     
    #4 Martin, Nov 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2008
  5. Mr. E

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    Comments and questions

    Hi Martin,
    I can appreciate the concerns regarding Trinity's past recognition issues; the Liverpool and Canterbury associations were deceptive, as well as their previous unrecognized (?) accreditation. Let's not forget their candidacy and withdrawal from the NCA.

    Do you think that the improvements they have made recently can help them overcome their storied past? (By improvements, I am referring to credentialed faculty and revising of programs.) It appears as if they are trying to turn a corner because of the elimination of the PHD, DRS and now provide more academic core courses in their undergraduate programs.

    Wales validates many institutions and I would hope that the association was to provide a link to credibility and assure students that TTS was providing an education that was up to U of Wales standards. The problem lies if TTS tried to use its validation in place of recognized accreditation. Could the Wales validation been a means to re-establish some type of respectability, while preparing for national accreditation?

    On a side note, I had looked into the TTS/ Wales program and it looked interesting but I could not gage how the academic community viewed this unique relationship. The TTS advisor could not or would not address it when I spoke with them. After viewing the BBC clip, I see how one education expert, John Bear viewed it :laugh: .

    Best Regards.
     
  6. Rhetorician

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    Siberian Response and Question

    Hello to all:

    I was wondering if there was a Trinity alum who might care to come and comment on his/her educational experience at the school and give some insights into the newest development?:thumbs:

    "That is all!":laugh:
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    I wonder if they struggle with Harvard's lack of accreditation
     
  8. Mr. E

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  9. Revmitchell

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    .......................................................
     
    #9 Revmitchell, Nov 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2008
  10. UZThD

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    =====

    Hi Rhet

    I was in the TTS PhD in Bible in 2000. No languages , exams, or academic thesis required to enroll. Completed three courses. Work was at MDiv level. Papers graded on a single sheet based on Bloom's Taxonomy. Books were Introductions used in master's courses in other schools. Cassettes ("lectures" ) were the same as master's student and I think undergrads listened to. Not a mill but not rigorous either. After less than a year my lust for any DE doc was replaced by a desire for a credible one.
     
  11. Martin

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    ==I really don't understand how Trinity Seminary, not to be confused with the solid and respected Trinity Evangelical, could allow a student who has zero background in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and German to enter a PhD program in the Bible. Most programs require at least Hebrew, Greek, and one other language (some two other languages). The Theological PhD is probably one of the most demanding in the world. So Trinity's less than credible admissions standards should send up warning flags.

    ==What is sad is that there are Christians out there who would justify and defend such low standards. Sad.


    ==That certainly was a good decision on your part. I'm sure you never regretted it. Earning a real degree is always better than earning a diploma dressed up as a degree.

    Thanks for sharing!:thumbs:
     
  12. Martin

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    I read somewhere that Trinity Seminary might be closing down. I really don't recall where I read it, nor do I know if it is true, but it is interesting considering that Trinity has lost its Wales association. They claim they are working on gaining real accreditation but, as many here already know, Trinity has been down that road before. I suspect if they can't gain some sort of real accreditation they will not be in business five years from now. Schools like Liberty, Southern Evangelical, Luther Rice, Temple, Moody, New Orleans, and others, will put them out of business.
     
  13. TCGreek

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    Martin, there underhanded dealings are finally catching up with them.

    They have become a byword.

    They need to go.
     
  14. UZThD

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  15. Martin

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    I could not help but notice that you are a Course Assessor &
    Post Graduate Supervisor for The South African Theological Seminary. Are they recognized in the United States? In other words, would a person who earned a degree from there be able to use that degree in American universities and seminaries? Just curious. I have always wondered about that and now I have a chance to ask someone who certainly knows.
     
  16. Rhetorician

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    Martin Response

    Martin,

    Please forgive the intrusion?

    Bill Grover is the real deal and so is his degree. It is just as good as a USA PhD. I have researched it and looked into it extensively and you can count on the SA programs for quality and acceptability.

    And besides that, Bill is a scholar, gentleman, and a personal friend of mine.

    "That is all!"
     
  17. Havensdad

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    From someone that has taken Classes at both Religious and non Religious Universities, and one who is now taking classes from SATS, I can say with confidence there classes are very rigorous> in fact, I have considered some of them ridiculously so. I gave one of the papers that I got a rather low grade on to a former Seminary professor friend of mine, who had graded thousands of papers at Golden Gate (big six), and lets just say my assessment from him was a bit better.

    The length and difficulty of courses from SATS are if anything more difficult. And yes, they are legitimate (and comparatively inexpensive) .
     
  18. UZThD

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    Martin: The South African Theological Seminary has accreditation equal to the several, public SA universities. The programs from diplomas to the D.Th. offered by SATS are accredited by The South African Qualifications Authority which is, I understand, the equivalent of our Federal Dept of Education.

    I supervise several MTh students who are composing master's theses, and I evaluate assignments submitted for two of the three bridging courses (done by those without a BA in Theology who wish to begin the MTh.), and I grade assignments for about 10 undergrad subjects.

    These three activities consume about 20-25 hours weekly. At 68 years of age, I am very blessed to have a second career after teaching Language Arts for 35 years in California and Oregon public secondary schools (with teaching credentials from both USD & OSU).

    The materials used (students are provided for individual courses a "Reader" which is an anthology of scholarly material ; eg. a Theology course may include material from Erickson, Strong , Moller, and Grudem), the objectives set, and the methods of evaluation are, IMO, appropriate for those courses I supervise for their particular level of instruction. About 1/4 of all assignments I mark are returned to the students for resubmission due to deficits. I rarely give a mark of 80 or higher which is the equivalent of our "A."

    The doing of an Mth thesis is a complex process requiring months even to prepare a propsal for research,, the approval of a committee of professors who evaluate that carefully researched and written proposal for a thesis, and then, were that proposal approved, the MTh student works closely with a supervisor. The end product must be passed by yet another committee which includes profs from other schools as well.

    SATS has an online research, Theological Journal (Conspectus) which may be viewed at www.sats.edu.za. (go to research, go to Conspectus)

    Rhet: As usual, my friend, you are overly kind, and I wish you God's very best.
     
    #18 UZThD, Dec 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2008
  19. paidagogos

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    Urban legend

    This falsehood has been making the circuit for more than thirty years. It is promoted primarily by those opposed to accreditation. (Many years ago, I gave contrary information to a nationally known speaker who was saying that the best Ivy League schools, including Harvard, were not accredited but I think he continued giving the illustration. He responded, "Well, if that's true, it sure ruins a good illustration.") Check out the College Blue Book and other reference sources to find that Harvard, as well as the other Ivy League schools, is regionally accredited and holds numerous specialized accreditations.


    On the other hand, you may want to check out the article at the following:
    http://assimilatedpress.blogspot.com/2006/07/harvard-business-school-loses.html

    The interesting thing, however, is that the School of Education at highly touted UMass at Amherst is guilty of pretty much the same but no one cried foul. This is where Dr. Bill Cosby received his doctorate without attending classes. Even accreditation plus resputation does not necessarily spell Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y.
     
    #19 paidagogos, Dec 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2008
  20. Martin

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    ==That is interesting and very telling. Sometimes I think some of the seminary work in the U.S. is a bit too easy. After spending a year or so at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary I graduated with a MA/R from Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary. Then I went on to earn a MA/History & Social Studies degree from a UNC campus. The graduate history work was much more demanding than either Southeastern or Liberty. It was not the subject, it was the level of work required. The secular university was much more demanding than seminary. Thats not a bad thing either. I just wonder if some seminaries could take a page from secular universities.


    Rhetorician & UZThD,

    Thanks for the information. I am done with schooling (for now) but I talk to a lot of people who ask my advice on schools. I have been asked about the South African Seminary but I could not give much advice on it. I know that several seminary professors have degrees from there but I did not know if SATS was considered as good as an American school. Now that I know they are accredited, and highly demanding, I can recommend it to folks who want a doctorate but can't leave their current job.

    Thanks!
     

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