True/False : it is The Will of God that NONE perish, All Receive His Son Jesus!

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Jun 9, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    Well?

    Should we interprete the Bible to be saying God truely desires ALL to be saved, and that NONE should perish in their sins, or as something else?
     
  2. webdog

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    True.

    Had to continue typing as the answer was too short. :)
     
  3. Luke2427

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    False- at least concerning the verse you are referring to.

    It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the non-elect.

    II Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    The promise is to US- God's people. The promise to return for his own has NOTHING to do with the non-elect.

    So it reads like this (the "us" is God's elect): The Lord is not slack concerning his promise to us but is longsuffering to us not willing that any of us should perish but that all of us should come to repentance.

    No one who God has elected to save will FAIL to come to repentence- no one.

    God is patient with us not willing that any of us should perish.
     
  4. Rippon

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    How can you say "true" when he gave a choice? Didn't you notice the word "or" in his query? At least in his post --not the header.
     
  5. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Message

    It is a message to reach out to the world with the Gospel because of the desire of God.

    It is so easy to say the words of Paul than to live the life he lived?
     
  6. Luke2427

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    They were the words of Peter....
     
  7. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Thank you, I was thinking of these verses. That does bring more into the discussion.

    1 Timothy 2
    Instructions on Worship
    1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
     
  8. webdog

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    It is true, that's how. It is true that God desires that all come to repentance leading to salvation...and it's equally true that God desires holiness and justice which mean men are accountable for their actions, which also means it is true that not all will be saved. No contradiction.
     
  9. JesusFan

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    Aren't you here argiung for then a permissive/allowing dual Will for God?
    he wants ALL to be saved in your words, willing NONE tp perish, yet the Will of man can and does override the expressed will of God for us?

    Unless All does not mean All all of the time!
     
  10. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Want

    Our biggest problem is we make His want a will.

    God wills that those who trust, believe in His Son be saved and that those who don't continue to condemnation.

    That will happen because it is His will.

    God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth that is a sending out, but only His will, will be done.
     
  11. webdog

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    I've never denied God's permissive will...but desire and will are not one in the same.
     
  12. Allan

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    HA! .. Now you sound like Charles H. Spurgeon

     
    #12 Allan, Jun 9, 2011
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  13. Winman

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    God wants every person to be saved, but they have to be saved HIS WAY by trusting in Jesus.

    In another thread it is asked if God can only save those men who permit God to save them. This is backwards. God only permits those men who submit to his will and trust in Jesus to be saved.

    Again, God desires and wills that all men be saved, but they must submit to God and trust in Christ.

    Men can choose what they want, but if they do not submit to God through Christ he will not save them.
     
  14. Dr Mixer GED

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    Amen

    AMEN. God's will is definitely only those who trust Jesus will be saved.

    God's want, is that all would trust.

    Jesus said how often He wanted them to accept Him. That is His wanting.

    But they would not. And His will is only those who accept Him will be saved.


    O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
    (Matthew 23:37)
     
  15. TomVols

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    Yes, God wants all to come to repentance and faith. However, His sovereign choice of some to salvation is the source of humanity's salvation and not the whims of sinful people.
     
  16. Dr Mixer GED

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    Does not click...

    Why would Jesus weep that they would not choose Him if He didn't choose them? God would not lament over people rejecting Him if He made it that they absolutely could not accept Him.
     
  17. Van

    Van
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    Reply to Luke

    I read this verse very differently. Of course, first of all, I start my study using the NASB, which reads:

    The Lord is not slow about His Promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you [those who have been saved already] not wishing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance. God is giving us time to carry His gospel to the lost, not wishing any of the lost should perish. That is why God has not chosen to end the age in the past, and why, if we are diligent, we can hasten the day of His return. The promise in view in this passage in the day of judgment and destruction, see verse 7.
     
    #17 Van, Jun 9, 2011
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  18. Luke2427

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    Everything in that text plainly refers to God's elect:

    1This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

    3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

    8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise (this promise is clearly for the people of God), as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward (to us, who?- the "you" who have "pure minds" in verse one; the ones to whom God has given this precious promise of SALVATION in verse 15- the VERY same promises Peter opens his epistle speaking about in verse 4 of chapter 1. It CERTAINLY does not refer to the false teachers of chapter 2! So then it MUST refer to God's people.), not willing that any (who is the any then of necessity? OBVIOUSLY the ones to WHOM PETER IS SPEAKING- the people of God.) should perish, but that all should come to repentance (God is not willing that any of his elect shall perish but is instead longsuffering towards them willing rather that all of them come to repentance).

    10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, (Once again the promise is to US- God's people.) look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
     
    #18 Luke2427, Jun 10, 2011
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  19. Luke2427

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    There is absolutely no reason that this is true.

    And whenever you start a question with "Why would God..." you've already dived in way over your head.

    It is enough that God said he DID.

    God said he elected some. God said he passed over others. God said he wept over those he passed over. That is enough.

    To try to answer the question, "Why would God...?" is presumption in the highest degree. Who would presume to be able to explain the Almighty, Eternal, All Wise God?
     
  20. psalms109:31

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    Isaiah 44
    Israel the Chosen
    1 “But now listen, Jacob, my servant,
    Israel, whom I have chosen.
    2 This is what the LORD says—
    he who made you, who formed you in the womb,
    and who will help you:
    Do not be afraid, Jacob, my servant,
    Jeshurun,[Jeshurun means the upright one, that is, Israel.]
    whom I have chosen.
    3 For I will pour water on the thirsty land,
    and streams on the dry ground;
    I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring,
    and my blessing on your descendants.
    4 They will spring up like grass in a meadow,
    like poplar trees by flowing streams.
    5 Some will say, ‘I belong to the LORD’;
    others will call themselves by the name of Jacob;
    still others will write on their hand, ‘The LORD’s,’
    and will take the name Israel.

    John 1:11
    He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

    Matthew 10:
    33But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

    Romans 11:
    17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root[Greek root of richness; some manuscripts richness] of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
     

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