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Discussion in 'Politics' started by prophecynut, Dec 7, 2005.
It's a real shame that garbage like the above is posted on a day when we are remembering the deaths of over 2000 Americans who gave all in defending our country.
Ken, you're absolutely right. I can't debate whether the American government knew but it is ridiculous and outrageous to claim that Japan was provoked into attacking.
One has nothing to do with the other.
The New American, from whence this article originated, is a conservative web site. Therefore, it is no surprise that it would be debunked by some here, especially those who are fans of the CFR.
It is an historical fact that the US withheld oil to Japan which precipitated the attack on Pearl Harbor and that it was known in advance by the sitting President. Granted, it is a twist from the usual pablum we've all been taught through the decades, but facts are facts, and they finally come out in due time. There has been wickedness in our highest offices for a very long time, sad to say, through many administrations, both Democratic and Republican.
The very worst sort of wickedness was that our military were left without food and ammunition, (by FDR/Gen. MacArthur) left to be captured by the Japaneses and thus, the Death March to Bataan. THOUSANDS of US military and Filipinos were sacrificed to the Japanese under FDR as commander in chief - needlessly.
I might mention that FDR was so unprincipled, he was not the first sitting president to be an adulterer while he was in office. If someone can't be faithful to the marriage covenant, they certainly can't be expected to have integrity when it comes to the lives of those under their command, or in their dealings. I would also mention that during this time, he was kowtowing to "Uncle Joe" while thousands upon thousands of Uncle Joe's citizens were tortured and murdered and sent to slave labor camps in Siberia. Rather disgusting, IMO.
PS, I didn't read the link posted above. What knowledge I have about the subject, has been gleaned from surfing the Internet over the past few years, and from speaking with those who lived and served during WW2.
And if you read it on the web, you know it's gotta be true
Some things don't change. There will always be conspiracies, and whether this is true or not is irrelevant.
LE decries the slaughter of millions by Uncle Joe and FDR's kowtowing to him. One must wonder what has changed. Isn't LE one of the ones who believed that we should not do anything about the slaughter of people at the hands of Saddam Hussein? Why the concern for Stalin's victims but not for Hussein's?
What if there were those then who, like some now, would refuse to get involved in the war unless we had been directly attacked? Can you imagine the results if the US has stayed neutral? Hitler and Nazism would have dominated Europe for decades, perhaps until now. He would have been able to rebuild his crumbling economy.
If this was a coverup, a known act or even a provoked one, it could have been to do what we now know was right ... to stand up against tyranny.
LE, why not?
You have made some outrageous statements in your day, but you have outdone even yourself.
Conservative means staying true to the original. Spreading lies and hatred is not staying true to the original.
Japan has acknowledged their culpability in the attacks on 7 & 8 Dec . . . It is a journalistic sham (yellow journalism) to pretend that the President of the United States knew of the attacks and looked the other way.
There was no intelligence indicating a possible attack, this is unlike the WMD evidence that was used to support an invasion of Iraq. It is so easy to re-write the history with someone else's blood than it is with one's own blood.
But I cannot believe what your sources have said about MacArthur.
They have not studied his life. Nor do they tell the truth.
He did things they could easily attack. But, he did NOT desert his troops.
Furthermore, when you repeat trash about Monty (*), I won't get irritated. But, to repeat a false attack upon a true general and great leader makes me angry.
Tell me who MacArthur's assistant (Attache) was that told him he would ruin his career if he stayed to train the Filipino Army in the face of Japanese aggression? This would be his same assistant (Attache) that was with him in the Philippines (BTW the attache LEFT the Philippines & MacArthur stayed to train).
OK, then tell who was the Captain that led MacArthur's tank charge in D.C.? That would be the same CPT that denied he recognized the civilian that had saved his life in WWI. That CPT seemed to later regret his misrepresentation of the truth.
My grandpa always said that FDR ruined the Ameican farmer, and I believe it. But none of us Republican whose roots date back before the Great Depression have ever believed that FDR was guilty of treason at Pearl Harbor.
Undoubtedly, the Japanese did move after we cut off raw materials for them. However, our ally was China, and let us not forget what Japan did in China.
Also, it must be remembered that Wendell Wilkie moved the GOP to support for FDR on foreign policy and killed off the isolationism of the 1930s. So the GOP had a seat at the table with FDR on the defense of America and the GOP supported WW II 100%.
Nor do I think that our soldiers, of whom Ike (President Eisenhower)said that GI Joe was the reason that we won the war, were anything but the best soldiers in the history of the world in this greatest nation on God's green earth.
From a another conservative resource:
It is not being debunked because of its political predilection. It is being debunked because the content of the OP is untrue.
Oh, do you mean Oliver Lyttleton, British Minister of Production, did not make that statement?
Just because he said it doesn't make it true, LE. I wish you would drop your hatred of the United States. It's a shame when someone comes on here and, time and time again, posts such vile, unproven things about these United States - the greatest country in the history of the world.
You and pnut make quite a team, LE.
I saw a special on this topic not long ago. It ran on the History Channel or something like it.
It didn't come out and say that Roosevelt knew. But it was clear from internal documents and testimony that Roosevelt considered our entry into the war vital. Publicly, he kept up an isolationist facade. Privately, he feared that the US would end up standing against the Nazis alone after the allies were defeated.
I think he also skirted some laws to sell war goods to Britain.
Roosevelt wasn't very honest about the whole deal. Whether he was dishonest enough to let the US be attacked or not will always be a matter of debate.
This great nation of ours was very much involved in the war prior to Dec. 7th, ask the Merchant Marines, British Air Force, China, etc...
How could anyone possibly believe any American would knowingly let our country be attacked? It
was just a matter of time before we were involved.
This is the wrong subject to be Monday Morning Quarterbacking.
And I wish you would change flavors of Kool Aid.
Posting about wickedness in my country's government does not make me a USA hater.
It could be argued that some of us are more loyal to the troops and support the military of this Great Nation more than you do because some of us care when they are used, abused, and misued by their Commander in Chief, whether it be the current one or a former one.
It could also be argued that a true Patriot wants their Government and elected officials to be above reproach and loyal to the Constitution of this United States and those who serve under her command, rather than for them to be used for political or other gain by the rich and powerful and spiritually wicked in high places.
Now, if this were a monarchy, I would feel differently about it, but it isn't just yet. We are supposed to be a democratic republic. Just because we have the finest and strongest military in the world is no reason to abuse or mistreat or discount the lives and limbs of those who volunteer to serve, whether in war or in peace. I can see no justifiable reason for any COC to use any US soldier as cannon fodder, such as happened in the Philippines in WW2 or other wars. That perspective in no way diminishes the respect for the bravery and valor of our troops, only that of those who manipulate our nation's most valuable assets - our soldiers.
I agree that the United States is the greatest country in the history of the world. But that is only, like the song says, because "God shed His Grace on Thee." It is also because of the blood, sweat, and tears of our forefathers, who gave up everything - riches, land, life's work, blood, and loss of lives and loss of lives of kin, to make it so. And it is because of the sacrifices of our warriors. And because of the prayers and faithfulness of generations of blood-washed believers in Jesus Christ that have made this Nation Great. And probably a reason or two, which I won't go into here.
You have yet, however, to disprove what I have discussed about Bataan, MacArthur, or FDR. Saying the subject matter is vile is correct. It is VERY vile. Sometimes truth is vile.
I can never begin to tell you the sadness I've felt upon discovering and learning about some of these issues. I found it quite appalling that FDR ordered MacArthur to leave our troops without food and ammunition as sitting ducks for the Japs. I found it sickening, quite frankly. But that is apparently what happened. Vile as it is. It was also a vile thing that after what the Japanese did to the Chinese, they were never held accountable. But that is another issue.
You can disagree with me, but I would be interested in seeing if you can disprove what I posted.
I would welcome your links from other conservative sources. Of course, some of them will document what I've asserted here, as mentioned previously.
But if a person posts a lie, then what does that make the person?
Feel free to post about wickedness that is true. But refrain from posting allegations that consist of rumor and gossip. Even if the end is just, the means does not justify it.
And yes, imo, a person who posts rumors and gossip about the USA is a USA hater.
That's right LE one has to be loyal to the government, the days of being loyal to the country are long gone.
Agreed. But what has been posted here that is merely rumor or gossip? Please list your allegations.