Truth or Calvinism - That should do it.

Hello Benefactor,

I would ask you and Pastor Larry to forgive me for answering a request that you directed to him.

Here is the larger context...

John 3:15 is good example of the subjunctive mood being used where the outcome is not doubted. We have, "so that whoever believes will...have eternal life - NASB." The NASB translates 'εχη' as "will...have" rather than "may (or might) have" indicating that at least this translation committee did not think that the use of the subjunctive here meant to imply doubt of the outcome.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Brian

 

Mercy, Do I have to "Spell it out"??? :BangHead:

OT people never had a "comforter", God spoke to them through "prophets",

So how could they "OBEY" God's word's if there was "NO COMFORTER/HOLY SPIRIT" indwelling them to "MAKE" them "change their evil ways"??

Calvinist says that isn't Possible.

 

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, (Ghost of Jesus)

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice,

Heb 1:1 God, spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,

If the Comforter is not the "voice of Jesus", who's voice is it???

Can't be God's/Holy Spirit, he speaking through Jesus/comforter. :laugh:

 

Calvinism is not an either/or. It's simple an effort to understand God's role and humanity's role in the work of salvation.

 

Before you beat your brains out read my post. I said nothing about the Old Testament.

But you are wrong about the Holy Spirit and the Old Testament!

 

What??? You are making that up. Wallace most assuredly does not support your view. There is no implied doubt about the fulfillment of the divine action. When you judge this case on its own merits, your position does not stand.

BTW, if you are going to talk about Greek, you need to have worked through Wallace.

However, back to the point, nothing in Rom 11:32 says anything about special election.

 

In a recent post on the website "Strange Baptist Fire, http://strangebaptistfire.wordpress.com/ Andrew Lindsey reported on a discussion on the Albert Mohler Radio Program. Dr. Mohler moderated a discussion on Calvinism featuring Dr. Russell Moore of Southern Seminary; Dr. Matt Pinson, President of Free Will Bible College; and Dr. Mark Dever of 9Marks Ministries.

In commenting on the discussion, Andrew Lindsey cited still another radio interview involving R. C. Sproul: This is what I'd like to throw out for your comments:

So the question of the hour is "Who makes you to differ from another?" in regard to salvation.

 

You know, all these names mentioned on this thread, whether it be Wallace, Calvin, Moore, Lindsey, or whoever, were mortal men like us, with minds like ours. God gave us a mind to read the Bible, and gave us the Holy Spirit to teach us in all things. What difference does it make what someone else thinks about what the Bible says?

It is obvioius from the Scripture that God is a sovereign and merciful God. He is the Creator, and salvation is totally from Him. Without Him, we could not take a breath of air. We do not choose to take a breath of air or not and sustain life. If there is any free will on the part of man in certain contexts, it is given to him by the Lord.

We are all capable of figuring this out by reading Scripture, going to Bible study, and fellowshipping. IMO, Pastor Larry, OR, and Tom Butler have this issue nailed down. The only thing that I wish is that we had named these doctrines something other than Calvinism.

 

I agree SN. Some people get their hackles up when they hear the name Calvinism and are immediately turned off. I have suggested several times that Baptists should use a name other than Calvinism, like the Doctrines of Grace. Tom Nettles uses that name as a subtitle of his book By His Grace and for His Glory. Besides Calvin believed some things I don't,

 

Of course that is the design. That doesn't make it flawed. Please give your reasons you think the illustration is flawed.

No one has claimed that freedom to believe is a work. It is a gift, of course, but not a work.

The illustration in question did not say faith is a work. If you don't like Sproul's illustration, would you like to take a crack at the question "Who makes you to differ in the matter of salvation?" Why did you repent and believe, and someone else not? What is it within you that turned you from rebellion to surrender? Why was the Holy Spirit's work of convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment effective with you, but not with another?

Why was the drawing by the HS effectual with you but not another?

 

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Sometimes the interactions on this board are not very gracious or charitable. I realize that many of the issues discussed deal with beliefs that are deeply held on both sides, and because of this emotions can run high. However, as Christian brothers and sisters all of our interactions should be seasoned with charity and grace. We have no right to be otherwise.

Your Fellow Sinner Saved By Grace,

Brian

 

Benefactor - I read some of your posts. For what it's worth, what you really could use is a good old fashioned dose of h-u-m-i-l-i-t-y-. Then, and only then, can you start to learn theology. Here's some verses that are good for Calvinists and Arminians, as well as your own, confessed "middle of the road" theology. (You want to be extra careful when you are in the middle of the road ... you're liable to get hit from both directions.)

Proverbs 29:23
A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.

Isaiah 57:15
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

James 4:6
God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

 

You, like all of us are a created being. God is the Creator. Any free will that you have comes from and is defined from Above. As God has allowed, you have the free will to make day to day decisions that affect your life on this earth. What makes you think that in the fallen state we are in, that we have the free will to accept something that is Holy? What evidence or Scripture backs this up? These two examples are two entirely different areas.

For a while, I struggled with irresistible grace. I do not like that term, because it connects to the man Calvin. Anyway, once the Holy Spirit starts working on someone, maybe in God's timing, it is not at the first instant. Maybe when we see people who will seem to reject God time after time, it is because we are seeing the Holy Spirit convicting them on God's time schedule. The bottom line is, if God has chosen them, they will declare Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The other possibility is that we are seeing someone operating off a conscience in them, and the Holy Spirit is not convicting them.

By the way, welcome to Baptist Board, and hope you enjoy the exchange of ideas.

 

Could you please clarify? Are you really saying that those living in O.T. times did not have the Holy Spirit?

 

This statement, which is classic Armianism by the way (so much for "middle of the road"), makes election both illogical and redundant.

What is the PURPOSE of election at all if it is after one has been saved, (or to use your words, "received the truth")?

The very meaning of election is a choice to something, not after the fact. If I "elect" to do something, the "election" precedes the action. Why does the Bible even speak about election if it is a choosing by God of a person after a person has chosen (elected) God?

Your view of election is man-centered, not God-centered. And the kindest thing I can really say about it is that it makes nonsense of the language of the Bible; whether it's Greek or English!