TULIP Redefined

What position am I placing my self?

 

You see the scripture as you were the one chosen before the foundation of the world in Christ and I don't. I see myself there becase I am in Him. It is Believers He chose to save inside Christ not outside of Him. I will not place myself in your position

 

Sorry, but who is the one being chosen in this verse?

"Even as he chose US in him(Christ) before the foundation of the world? Is Christ the "us" there are are we the "us"? We are the "us" in the passage. We are the ones chosen. It doesn't say even as he chose Christ in Christ.

 

Calvinists always look over "in Him". We are chosen "in Him". It does not say "even as He chose us before the foundation of the world". Only believers are chosen. That's what "in Him" means.

We are elected because we are "in Him".
We receive eternal life because we are "in Him".
We receive the inheritance because we are "in Him".
We can go to the Father because we are "in Him".

Apart from Him, we can do nothing, including being elected.

 

Audience of people who are already believers., because they were already in Christ
I am chosen before the foundation of the because of Him being chosen and I am in Him

 

No, we are not elected "because" we are in him. The passage doesn't say that at all. I do not over look the "in him" at all. What I don't do is add the word "because" in the passage. It doesn't say, even as he chose us because we would be in him. Yes the election is for believers. Not because we are believers, but to be believers. To be holy and blameless. To be preserved by the Spirit. To be adopted into God's family.

 

It says you are chosen "in Him", meaning you are chosen because you are in Him. You cannot be chosen apart from Him.

 

Yes, only those that are "in him" can claim this promise. We are the object being chosen in the passage. No body can honestly deny that. The us in the passage is believers and future believers. Once one is in Christ, he can claim the promises in the passage.

 

it doesn't say "because" we are in him and it shows no meaning of that at all. You are putting man at a higher level than should be. He(the Father) chose us(believers) in him(Christ) before the foundation of the world. There is no choice if all he did is see who believed.

 

Elected and chosen mean the same thing.

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

You were chosen in Christ apart from Him you have no life and can't do anything. You have turned to Christ or you wouldn't be in Him. His word brought you to where you are.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Did I say elected and chosen mean different things?

 

Again, where did I say election was apart from Christ?

"even as he chose us in him(Christ)

 

Likewise, it doesn't say "to be" in place of your "because". Its simply says He chose us in Christ, not apart from Christ, in Christ. Context demands this must be due to us being in Him, not leading up to us being in Him.

 

Actually context demands the opposite, unless you were in Christ before the foundation of the world. Were you in Christ before the foundation of the world?

 

You said we are elected to be in Him...but the text does not say that.

 

If you was chosen to be in Him apart from being in Him that is what u are saying to me

 

I didn't say that, though that is true, but not the point of the "in him" here. Were you in Christ before the foundation of the world?

 

I'll ask you the same question, were you in Christ before the foundation of the world.