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Featured Tullian Tchividjian Back in Active Ministry

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Reformed, Sep 1, 2015.

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  1. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    How would this fellow's sin compare to Peter denying he knew the Lord?

    Or perhaps when Peter played the hypocrite and withdrew from the Gentiles, thus denying the unity of the Body?

    How about Paul putting Christians to death?

    I guess I can see why reticence to restore to ministry might be considered applicable, but anyone can be tempted and fall into sin, so should we just write off any Christian who does? It seems to me that God will determine this man's usefulness in the future, and perhaps we might just stretch our imaginations and consider that someone can fall, truly repent, and be useful to the Lord again.

    My prayer for the man is that this will be a learning experience that will help mold this fellow into the man God is training up. That his marriage will be restored. That his walk with the Lord will never falter as it has in this occasion.


    God bless.
     
  2. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Paul, and the rest of the Apostles, were all a work in progress. That they were commissioned directly by Christ is not the same thing as the ordination of a minister of the Gospel today.

    Paul did persecute Christians before he became one himself.

    Peter being rebuked by Paul was a form of church discipline, albeit Apostle to Apostle. But since Peter was commissioned directly by the Lord, only the Lord could remove Peter from office. That is not the way it is today when it comes to Pastors and Elders. The Lord Jesus Christ is no longer directly commissioning ministers of the Gospel. Certainly the Holy Spirit is involved in calling a man to ministry, but it is not the same thing as the Lord calling His twelve by name. This is why Paul waxed eloquently about the qualifications of ministry in I & II Timothy and Titus.

    It is interesting how you started off with you concern about this being a learning experience for Tullian Tchividjian. You give lip service about his marriage being restored (which is unlikely since Mr. Tchividjian filed for divorce after this thread was created). But what about the restoration that is needed within the church he pastored? How about the many people who were spiritually damaged by his actions? Mr. Tchividjian jumped so fast at his new staff position that that one would be insane to call that an act of true repentance.
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Darrell C

    God has spoken clearly on this:
     
  4. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Had this been a long past issue, I would agree with you but this man JUST filed for divorce from his wife. This tells me a lot. They both committed adultery and their marriage is damaged beyond repair due to sin in both parties. This is all a recent development and let me tell you - it takes YEARS to recover from adultery in a marriage. YEARS! This man is right at this time absolutely disqualified from any service in the church at this time and any time in the near future.
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    My view is no marriage is beyond repair. We have a God and His word that is bigger that any marriage problem. If Jesus can hang from the cross and ask the Father to forgive those who railed and hung Him there then so can we forgive our spouses no matter what the problem.

    That being said and true, the decision to divorce is a choice. It is a choice to quit, it is a choice to go against the sanctity of marriage further and is unnecessary.

    The decision to divorce is further evidence of a judgment problem. While he has to work being in a leadership position in a church is very problematic. Maybe the pastor is keeping him on a tight leash and has him under a restoration program while serving.

    However, this comes across as making light of his situation and working to avoid consequences as much as possible.
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Oh lord...i just started attending a PCA church thinking they would be organized enough to be....maybe id better find out more about the diciplining policies.
     
  7. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    It is beyond repair when your spouse leaves and marries another.

    Yes, but if they refuse to receive grace and leave the relationship, then a mere human cannot change that. Even God had elected not to violate the will of a human to reject Him.

    Sometimes it is the best choice to let the community and government know what has already happened. The real divorce happens long before any announcement is made or papers filed.

    It's just not that black and white. Simply put, it is sometimes the best choice because there are not any good choices. The sanctity of marriage has already been woefully damaged by the time anyone files for divorce. It is the death certificate for a marriage. It should come after there is no hope for reconciliation. In community property states, remaining legally married when your marriage has realistically ended can turn into a huge problem. For instance, if your enstranged spouse is running up enormous debts, you have a Christian obligation not to borrow money that you can't repay.

    I know nothing about the internal workings of this marriage that has ended, but I know enough not to make judgments about other people's marriages/divorces because the reality is often very different than what appears in public.

    Many years ago my first wife bailed out on our marriage because it didn't solve all of her personal issues and took off to live with one of the guys she had been cheating on me with for at least the previous year. I had discovered the affair and was trying to work things out with her for nearly a year when she jumped at the chance to move in with him. For the next six months, I continued to try to reconcile, but she ran up enormous debts - debts that took nearly 15 years to repay (I was counseling to file for bankruptcy, but that would not be fair to the lenders who loaned money to her (us) in good faith) - and I was rapidly reaching the point where I would not be able to ever pay them back - and I knew she couldn't/wouldn't.

    Under counsel from my pastor and other spiritual leaders, I filed for divorce to protect myself and others from her actions, and - in the words of my pastor - "officially state what has already happened" in my marriage. It was the right decision to make in that situation. Nevertheless, my Christian brothers and sisters came out of the woodwork to condemn me for being hard-hearted and not having faith in God. I had more than a few people accuse me of having a girlfriend on the side (believe me, I didn't want another relationship) and notified me that they would condemn the new marriage (that they expected within a few months) so I had better rethink that. (I'm sure there are some people out there who pride themselves on warning me away from my marriage to a nonexistent girlfriend.) I suppose what explains their ungodly attacks on me was that I didn't regularly inform everyone that my wife was cheating on me and that she was making a mockery of our marriage. That's because I was trying to reconcile with her and if I was successful, others would hold grudges and would continue to condemn her - especially my own extended family. Telling more than one or two close friends would ensure that I could not be reconciled.

    So, folks who say there is no excuse for divorce, I agree. However, there are often innocent parties to the divorce who actually need support, not accusations and condemnation. Moreover, it is not always clear who is the innocent party. Should someone who has recently endured divorce be in a leadership role in Christian ministry? No. But I think churches should find creative ways to help ministers transition to careers outside of vocational ministry or have them work in the background in an extremely low-profile position (not splash their name on websites) to provide expertise until they have healed and the Spirit gives evidence that they are to continue their calling.
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    That is irrelevant to anything I said.
     
  9. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I was responding specifically to your absolute statement: "...no marriage is beyond repair."
     
  10. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I agree that no marriage is beyond repair but when a spouse files for divorce, what can you do? But to repair a marriage that has been damaged by infidelity, there is a lot of work to be done and if the other spouse is unrepentant and continues in the infidelity, I do think there are absolute grounds to leave - as Jesus Himself said as well.
     
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    If they are divorced there is no marriage. My statement is only speaking of married people. Having said that God can even restore a marriage that has been broken by divorce. And yes that is an absolute statement I will stand by.
     
  12. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I agree. I've seen couples who are divorced come back together again and remarry. However it makes it hard if one or both are remarried. ;)
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Right, but I was not addressing that issue. My point was there is no need to ever assume divorce is necessary.
     
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Yep. I don't think we've ever instructed anyone to divorce in our church save one. I'm not going to get into details but I can just safely say that it was a matter of safety for both mom and children and there was no physical abuse but instead sexual abuse. That was the first time I ever stared into the face of someone so completely reprobate that it made my skin crawl.
     
  15. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Regardless of issue concerning whether Mr Tchividjian is truly divorced or can reconcile, I think we can all return to the OP and agree he isn't ready to assume a ministry position at any level at a local church.


    Edited to add: Baptist Believer, thank you for baring your soul to us. Your words are impactful and powerful. May God's grace be with you.
     
  16. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    How do we not know that this isn't an opportunity to counsel Mr. Tchividjian by having him in a place he can receive it? That may be the pastor's only way of having him in church instead of at home grieving over what he's done and what he's lost.
     
  17. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    From the pastor of Willow Creek Presbyterian (PCA):

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warren...llian-tchividjian-is-overwhelmingly-positive/

     
  18. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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  19. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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  20. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    So, pragmatism is the way of things now?
     
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