Two parts of baptism?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Jarlaxle, Jun 4, 2002.

  1. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle
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    Which part of baptism saves? The pledge of a good conscience toward God, the washing of filth from the flesh, or both?

    Jarlaxle
     
  2. donnA

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    Neither.
    If you aren't saved when you get in the water, you aren't going to be when you get out.
    Water does not wash away sin, all it does it get you wet. The blood of Jesus alone washes away sin. If water washed away sin, Jesus died in vain.
    Baptism is an act of obedience for the christian,a public proclaiming of faith in Jesus, faih in who He is, in His death for our sin, in His resurection,of our repentance.
     
  3. Jarlaxle

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    Then why does Peter say that baptism saves us?
    1 Peter 3:21
     
  4. Sir Ed

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    This has nothing to do with Baptism. Baptism is an act of God, not of us making some type of "pledge."

    This also has nothing to do with Baptism. Baptism is spiritual, not physical.
     
  5. Briguy

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    Katie, Good answer. Baptism has never saved anyone and never will. Peter was simply being symbolic in his words. There are many who will come after this that will say baptism saves, but like Katie I believe when that is said it takes away from the blood of Jesus. It is almost like entering a social club and baptism is the initiation. I know I know Baptism is only part of the salvation process. I have more to say but can't get it in right now.

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  6. Jarlaxle

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    Must we have faith to be saved? Or does that take away from the blood of Jesus as well?

    Jarlaxle
     
  7. Chemnitz

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    Neither, for there to be baptism there must be water, word, and faith. Take away one and there is no baptism.
     
  8. susanpet

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    Exactly. If it took water also, then the finished work at calvary was in vain. It is The BLOOD that washes our sins away.

    In Christ
    Susan
     
  9. SolaScriptura

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    As Peter says, baptism saves because it is the appeal to God for a clean conscience - you appeal to God in baptism THEN he cleanses your conscience. Peter also says "baptism saves...BY THE RESURRECTION OF JSEUS CHRIST." What saves in baptism? Is it the water? No. Is it a bath? No. Baptism saves only because it PUTS the person INTO Christ (Rom 6:3) and INTO Christ's death (Rom 6:3) and INTO Christ's resurrection (Rom 6:4). Baptism saves by putting a person in contact with Christ's work of redemption.
     
  10. Chemnitz

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    Argghhh network crashed while doing my previous post.

    In Baptism we find forgiveness of sins because we are baptised into Christ's death on the cross and from the forgiveness of sins we find salvation through the resurrection of Christ.
     
  11. SolaScriptura

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    Amen.
     
  12. DHK

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    When one gets saved they are put into Christ. When one gets baptized they are put into water.

    The baptism is simply a picture of the salvation; a burial of the old life, and a rising again to a new life in Christ. There is no mystical salvation experience in baptism. Water does not wash away sins. That is just superstitious hocus-pocus. The blood of Christ washes away sin, not baptism. Christ saves, not baptism. I am in Christ, and He is in me. That happened at the point that I was saved, not baptized. (I was baptized two years after I was saved).
    DHK
     
  13. Briguy

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    When Jesus and Paul were directly asked what it took to be saved they responded as follows.

    "Luke:
    18:18: And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
    18:19: And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
    18:20: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
    18:21: And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
    18:22: Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

    Acts:
    16:29: Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
    16:30: And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    16:31: And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

    Now to those who think baptism is essential for salvation, what is going on here? If you were asked the question that Paul and Jesus were wouldn't you have said Baptism? Yet we are to believe when asked the direct question that Jesus and Paul would leave out the very thing that really saves (puts them into Christ or however that was said before). That is a very illogical thought. The question was asked and answered directly and yet you just won't believe. I know you "Baptism for salvation" folks are well intentioned but you are simply wrong and we have Jesus and Paul telling us so.

    In Truth and Love,
    Brian
     
  14. ONENESS

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    18:22: Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

    If this man sold everything that he had and distributed unto the poor is that what would have saved this man? What would save this man is his willingness to follow Jesus. And to submit every part of his life over to the athority of Jesus. When you Belive on Jesus everything else will fall into perspective.

    But in a sence, if he would have sold everything that he had that would have earned him eternal life in the long run. The bible does not say it but I beleive if this man would have listend to the voice of God and sold everything that he had, it would had humbled him and put him in a position to receive the Gift from God.

    [ June 05, 2002, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]
     
  15. Briguy

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    ------BUMP-------

    I Bumped this up in hopes that Ron, Ed, Frank, or Sola would respond (or someone with like beliefs) to my last post.

    Brian(oneness), I am not sure what you are getting at by your post. Were you agreeing with me?
    Please do not let it be so ;) :D [​IMG]

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  16. trying2understand

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    Brian, just to really confuse you... ;)

    The Catholic Church actually teaches that Baptism is not an absolute necessity but is rather the normative means for receiving saving grace.

    BTW, text citing is a rather fruitless exercise since you will always find someone who holds the opposite belief from you (no matter what belief) who can pull just as many verses from the Bible that could be argued to support them.

    When someone tells me that the Bible is their authority, what they are actually telling me is that they are their own authority.

    I know, I know, you "compare Scripture to Scripture". The problem is you still are selecting the Scripture to compare.

    Ron
     
  17. Briguy

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    Ron, I understand your point but you asked for a scripture so I gave you one. You really are avoiding the meat of my argument. Re-read my post and try again, please. Thanks much.

    In Him,
    Brian
     
  18. trying2understand

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    Ok, Brian, let's try your way.

    Paul said baptism saves you. Now what? Paul was wrong? It's symbolic?

    Like I said, swapping verses is fruitless.

    BTW, have you sold all that you own? If not, according to your original post, how can you be saved?

    Know what I mean?

    Ron
     
  19. donnA

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    Sorry, I forgot which thread this was on, or I would have come back already. I see everyone has already given scripture, so I won't take up more space with the same verses.
    I'll just say again, if your sins aren't forgiven when you get in the water, all your going to be when you get out is wet. It's eother all Jesus, or none of Jesus. If salvation is by water,in any way or amount, the it wasn't by Jesus at all. Saving faith has to be fulling in Jesus for that salvation, not in anything else. If in anything else then it's not in Jesus.
    Someone asked about saving faith. Saving faith is not of ourselves, so it is not soomething we did. God gives the faith to believe and be saved, so it is still all of Him.
     
  20. Briguy

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    Ron, OK and what verse are you saying Paul said. Why do I think I would interpret it differently then you? You know if I say 1+1=2 and you say 3 it doesn't make 2 less right. I believe in scripture and I believe you are wrong ;) :D

    Now, if you think Jesus was telling us to sell our possesions because of the verse I said you are worse off then I thought [​IMG] But since I know you were just kidding I will leave it alone.(You were kidding right?)

    In Christ,
    Brian
     

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