U.S. Constitution - Article 4 Section 4...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by righteousdude2, May 1, 2010.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    ... states that - "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them (the individual states) against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence."

    According to the US Constitution, it is the responsibility of the US Governmant to "protect each state against "invasion... " and, even "domestic violence." Isn't what we are experieincing with the criminal act of illegal aliens coming over our border, an invasion?

    It sure seems to apply to what is going on all over our nation. ARE WE BEING INVADED???

    If Arizona believes they are being invaded, and that the federal government is not willing to protect them, nor, take legal action to stop this invasion, do they not have the right to defend their state?"

    There is also the potential for domestic violence from this invading group of people. I firmly believe that if the federal government took action to deport the millions of illegal aliens, there would be a lot of domestic violence in the form of riots.

    The above is simply my opinion, and I ask that you respond in kind. Your opinions, in the form of disagreement, are welcome. Please refrain from personally attacking me, my credibility, my character, or, anything in regard to me, my personally. We are one in Christ, and I am simply making an observation on this subject. Thank you!!!:praying:

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul :type:
     
    #1 righteousdude2, May 1, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2010
  2. Trotter

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    Each and every day.

    I firmly believe that this would generate a lot of jobs in AZ. It would take a lot of manpower to round up the illegals, transport them, feed them in transit, stand guard to keep them from running off, etc. Why, there's a huge shot in the arm for the state economy right there. Sure they may lose a few jobs at government agencies because of the drop in demand for them all of a sudden, but it would more than balance out overall.
     
  3. tinytim

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    Instead of whining about visitors.. try witnessing to them...

    God is bringing the whole world to your doorstep, and all you do is cry about how YOUR rights are being tramped on...

    JESUS said go into ALL the world.. well guys, the world is next door... within 15 miles from my home we have over 20 different nationalities... and that is the norm...
    And even more so the coming decade.. the day of the European White Man ruling America is gone.. Whites are becoming a minority in America... WE are truly becoming a melting pot, with many, many nations at our doorstep.

    Instead of whining and complaining.. GO OUT AND INTRODUCE THEM TO JESUS...
    START A HISPANIC CHURCH...

    Because, here's a novel idea, when they get saved.. Christ will change them.. and they will WANT to obey authority because it is the Christ honoring thing to do.
     
  4. tinytim

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    double post.
     
  5. righteousdude2

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    Let's Take Your Idea One Step Further...

    ... I know I'll take a big hit for saying this, BUT, I think you're right Tim! Let's witness to them... turn their hearts to Jesus... and when we send them back, through LEGAL deportation of ILLEGAL aliens, they can join a church in their native homeland, or, better yet, they could start a church in their native homeland, where ever that may be (China, Asia, Russia, Mexico, India, Europe)???

    And Trotter is right... this could be a big employment boom for those states taking action to send illegals back home. There are a ton of job opportunities just waiting to be tapped.

    There are, as I've said in other posts, illegals here from countries other than Mexico.
     
  6. tinytim

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    Why not witness to them... turn their hearts to Jesus... and then HELP them... to many from Honduras, El Salvador, etc.. sending them back would be a death sentence.. HELP them become legal...

    Many churches are sponsoring people to help them become legal. These are the "Strangers" that Jesus said we should minister too.
     
  7. windcatcher

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    Sadly, we ARE being invaded:
    The sad truth is that it is not entirely by 'illegal' aliens..... but by our own government's decision to quarter and train internationals, under the guise of UN 'Peace Keeping' forces to train with our militiary, use our weapons, have access to our lands and our bases and our military protocols, and with the potential for use in OUR COUNTRY, in the event a crisis, whether by natural occurrence or man's invention, precipitates an order of martial law.

    The illegals which are crossing the borders of Mexico to enter.... may be of any descent or country, although, no doubt, most are Mexicans. Of their number, some really do come here to escape the poverty and corruption of their own country, and some come fleeing for peace and safety, which their own government doesn't provide........ But some enter with criminal intent (beyond that of being here illegally)..... some to bring drugs and set up cells of distribution..... and others with ideas of fomenting strife, terrorism, and intentions of war.


    Postscript: Sorry, but I just don't see the end to these repeated threads or obsessions about illegal alliens.

    So the Congress voted to allow Puerto Rico to become a state?
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Because that would cause one to be called the worst of all names - a 'liberal.'
     
  9. righteousdude2

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    Jesus Also Said....

    ... "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's." I really don't believe that Jesus would have gotten into this issue.

    He did nothing to stop the "to death" matches in the Roman Stadiums. He did nothing to stop the slavery issue.

    While it is nice to think Jesus would have done something had there been an illegal alien issue in His day, I find it hard to believe, because He specifically instructed His followers to follow the laws of Caesar.

    He didn't need another problem with the government, as He had enough problems with the synagogue.

    Just must remember that Jesus was divisive. His Gospel brought about the dividing of families. Jesus didn't come here to correct the wrongs in society, He came to die, so our sins would be forgiven. And, that same goal is ours. We are not here to be involved in changing the government, or making better the society we live in. Our umber one goal is to sew the seeds of Salvation, reap the crops, and make disciples of all mankind.

    The do-gooders in the church are like those who sit in their car, revving up their engines, with the gear in neutral. Making a lot of noise and smog is about all you get.

    We've got one mission, and to take on changing societies problems waters down, and over taxes the church, weakening their number one goal.

    Feeding the homeless, caring for the orphans and widows, etc., are His will. Changing the ills of society are not what we are called to do. Of course, this IMHO, and you seem to believe differently, for which I totally respect you. I just don't think that is what Jesus meant when He said to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's"

    Pastor Paul :type:
     
  10. tinytim

    tinytim
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    Well, I don't know about other churches, but while they may be revving their engines, and not doing anything, we are.. And our Hispanic ministries are blooming...

    And God is blessing!.. Needs are being met, and people are coming to Christ.

    Here is an example of how great God is:

    Our Baptist association has been working in a nearby town where all the Hispanics live and work. There is no Baptist church in this town in our association, so we have been using a Presbyterian chapel for the last 6 months to hold our services. WE have outgrown this chapel. So imagine this...

    God puts it in a Baptist Pastor's (ME!) heart to go before the Presbyterian session last Thursday. The pastor was good enough to put me on their agenda.
    I ask for the main Presbyterian church's fellowship hall, and kitchen for every Saturday night starting in June to hold our Hispanic Worship services.
    I share with them all we want to do, (including planting a Baptist church out of their fellowship hall!).. and all that God HAS been doing...
    I leave the session.
    Friday morning, I get a call that the session voted unanimously to allow us to use their facilities!!!
    God is GREeeeAaaaaaaT! (from the Great theologian,Tony the Tiger...lol)

    So while other churches are spinning their wheels... we are bringing people to the lord by living Matthew 25.

    Matthew 25:31-46
    (31) "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
    (32) All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
    (33) He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
    (34) "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
    (35) For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
    (36) I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
    (37) "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
    (38) When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
    (39) When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
    (40) "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
    (41) "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
    (42) For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
    (43) I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
    (44) "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
    (45) "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
    (46) "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
     
  11. tinytim

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  12. righteousdude2

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    I Fail to See How This Relates to the Illegals

    Rome only treated it's citizens with open arms; and, sometimes, that wasn't even the best, when it came to treatment and care. Other nationalities were not given first place within the Roman society.

    Seriously, Tim, I see nothing wrong with doing all of these things when we see someone hurting and in need. But, I think you need to examine your priorities... is your first priority for those who break our laws, or, is it for our own mis-fortunate and the homeless living on "skid row" in every city across this great nation.

    For more than 25 years, my wife and I donated time and money to the Los Angeles missions, because it broke our hearts to see Americans sleeping in cardboard boxes along the sidewalks of L.A.

    Don't you think that we have a responsibility to our citizens first and foremost, and if there's anything left over, it can go to those who criminally entered this country???

    Wouldn't it be more prudent and show good stewardship to take care of those who are victims of this societies failure to provide a safety net.

    Tim, just look around you. We are in the midst of a major recession, and the number of homeless and transients in this nation grow with each passing day.

    I can't think of too many churches that don't give to overseas missions. And, most churches have missionaries in every country around the world. This should be more than enough to satisfy what you say is our obligation to those who are desolate.

    I don't believe that those who entered this country by breaking our laws, should get our undivided attention and charity.

    I say, take pity on them. Clothe them. Feed them. And assist them in getting back to the country they came here from.

    If that is cold, I'm sorry... but, I've worked and volunteered down on skid row, and there is a glaring need for as much compassion, charity, and attention as the church can possibly give.

    In my eyes, those in America, criminally speaking, are only serving to steal what we could be giving to our own needy, hungry, jailed, thirsty, hurting, sick, drug and alcohol addicted, abused, beaten down, etc.

    Don't the women, children and men on skid row deserve or best, and don't they qualify as "the strangers" that Jesus pointed out in those verses from Mtthew 25???

    When it comes to the illegals, go ahead and provide a temporary fix for those who are here by way of criminal entrance, and help them to find their way back to where ever it is they came from.

    We have more Americans in need than you and I could begin to imagine, and, to give all of our resources to criminals (illegals) is poor stewardship, IMHO.

    However, I commend your church for the great work that you are doing through your Spanish Ministry. The church I attend is doing the very same thing, plus, they have started at least 10 Spanish churches over the last 4 years, and that includes churches in Arizona, Washington and Texas.

    I don't think what they are doing is wrong... however, I'd prefer to see them give their local missions money to Americans trapped on skid row, living in their cars, and making our city parks their new home.

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul :type:
     
  13. Magnetic Poles

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  14. ReformedBaptist

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    righteousdude,

    Good posts. They should be sent back.

    And if memory serves me correctly, strangers who soujourned among Israel will required to obey their laws.
     
  15. Thinkingstuff

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    Well, I believe in the Three "G's"
    God
    Guns
    and
    Get the heck off my property!
     
  16. tinytim

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    I understand your sentiment.. However i want you to really think about his part I quoted.
    Especially the part I bolded and enlarged.

    I firmly disagree with that.. (Which is what I think our disagreement is truly over).. .

    I don't see a need to differentiate people depending on who they are. People, ALL people need Christ. And NO Where did Jesus say to put more importance on your own people than others. This is what the Jewish Leaders were doing. Remember the way they treated Samaritans. But what did Jesus do? He made a SPECIAL trip according to the first few verses in John 4.. JUST to the Samaritans... Now, there were people that, I am sure, needed help that day in Jerusalem. There were Jewish women that also needed to know that Jesus was the living water, but he chose to prioritize that day, and go into a community that was disliked by the Jews... Just to help them.

    NO, I don't believe that being a citizen of America gives anyone more importance in the eyes of God. Humans are all needful.

    That is what I have been saying all along. My Heavenly Citizenship is more important than my American Citizenship. And as a citizen of Heaven, I am commanded by my king to help people... ALL people... Not JUST Americans. Our King has demanded us in Matt. 25 how to help. Either we obey our king, or we don't.

    Can you honestly tell me that if Christ asks you at the Judgment Seat of Christ why you refused to help illegals, you can honestly look him in the eyes and say, "They were not Americans, and helping Americans was my first priority."???

    Could you honestly say that? What would you expect him to say?
    "Good job, I only died for the Americans.. what a way to be discerning."

    I don't think so... because he didn't die for Just citizens.. he died for ALL. And according to Matt 25, he expects us to serve men... ALL men, women, children, in all races... and cultures, and countries, and communities.
     
  17. tinytim

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    Can that secret place be seen from Palin's house in Alaska??
     
  18. preachinjesus

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    Because all illegal immigrants really are just drug dealers, job stealers, opportunists, and crime producers...none of them are looking for an opportunity like all of our distant relatives at some point, none of them are looking for family, none of them are contributing, none of them believed the promise of America. No they are all just evil people that want to destroy the civilization for their own greedy little motives.

    BTW, we started a Hispanic congregation about two years ago with 25 people and it has exploded to 500. There is a thirst for the freedom that Christ gives. We are seeing such amazing strongholds broken down and people rescued from condemnation. It is a vibrant ministry. :)
     
  19. tinytim

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    Praise God for your ministry.
     
  20. righteousdude2

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    I Don't Want to Not Help Illegals...

    I do want us to help these folks, because in truth, they were sold a package of false hopes by "coyotes."

    I do see the need to feed them, clothe them, share Jesus with them, give them a Bible and religious tracks to read on their bus trip back home.

    I'd say that my conscious would be clear before the Lord, because I am doing what the Bible says, and rendering onto Caesar what's his (which is making sure these non-Romans don't take away from the precious resources designated ONLY for Roman citizens:laugh:), by making sure these people are not left to clutter our streets, and become vagrants. Once I tend to their immediate needs and feed them and dress them, I safely escort them back home.
     
    #20 righteousdude2, May 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2010

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