Ukraine: Democracy at its best or chaos?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Dec 2, 2004.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Can you imagine seeing the type of Protests we are seeing right now in the Ukraine over the election back in the time of Stalin? How long do you think it would have lasted back then? What would the likely outcome have been? Are we not seeing the best of democracy in the midst of a bad situation? Just look at these people. They are boldly proclaiming in the middle of the streets their rights of free speech and assembly and they don't seem to be the least bit worried about being put in prison or killed.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. Turpius

    Turpius
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    great to see it, would have lasted maybe 5 seconds in Stalinist USSR.
     
  3. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Best thing might well be for the government to be resolved and fresh elections to be called. I cant see any other way of fixing it.
     
  4. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    My prediction:

    The Ukraine splits into two halves: an eastern and (ex-)industrial half based around the Donbass and Kharkiv which rejoins Russia (the population there are largely basically Russian) and a western agricultural half based around Lviv (not Russian/ Soviet ruled prior to 1945) which will join the EU and NATO. This is currently likely to happen peacefully, with Yuschenko being elected President and the eastern oblasts then holding referenda on independence (which their governors have threatened to do if Yuschenko gets elected), or less likely a civil war before we get to the partition with the area around Kiev being the frontline.

    Yours in Christ


    Matt
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    They are dancing in the streets today because democracy is winning in the Ukraine.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. Ben W

    Ben W
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    It once happened in Australia that the Governor who is the Queens representative dismissed the Government of the day and that we went to fresh elections. What had happened was that there was a Labor government in the Lower House yet the Liberal party controlled the Senate and would not pass any legislation that was passed in the lower house.
     
  7. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    Gough Whitlam, 1975? Or am I a completely off-base Pom here?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  8. Daisy

    Daisy
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    Does a rigged election really represent democracy at its best?
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Nope. It is the protest in the streets which lead to a new election and overturning the rigged election that really represents democracy at its best. Under Stalin, that protest would have lasted 30 seconds and everyone there would have been slaughtered or sent to Siberia. Of course, under Stalin, they wouldn't have even had an election.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow
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    My bet is that you called the demonstrators against George Bush in the streets of NYC traitors. Correct? Which is it? Democracy at its best or something to be ridiculed?
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    No, I didn't call them traitors.

    I did call Kerry a traitor, though. :D

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Even if I did call them traitors (which I don't think I did, I called them stupid and possibly seditionists, but not traitors), isn't free speech a great thing. This reaction of yours is very telling, though. It is almost as though you are angry that democracy is working. Go figure.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
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    Democracy at its best is that someone is able to call someone else a traitor and vice versa and the government not take either one of them seriously.

    I think the protests in the Ukraine are wonderful. I do hope though that once the election is totally decided that the protests do not dissolve into civil war.
     

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