Unbelief....or All Sin?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Oct 16, 2015.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    In a recent post.....a certain poster{ I will not reveal his identity to protect him from his post}
    a certain poster made this claim and suggested I was wrong and teaching error;


    Unbelief is sin and anyone denying Jesus will perish for sure......that is not the question.
    The question is.....does God punish each and every sin according to His Holy law?

    This poster reacted this way, unfortunately;
    Does God intend to punish all sin?
    Or does God only punish unbelief?
    Do people who do not hear about Jesus have their sin punished at all?
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    When Jesus dealt with the rich young ruler mentioned to him the ten commandments. What were the sins Paul listed a few times? Some people need to think before they speak and consider the whole counsel of God.
     
  3. Rippon

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    Does God intend to punish all sin?
    Or does God only punish unbelief?
    Do people who do not hear about Jesus have their sin punished at all?
    _____________________________________________________________
    RM, please answer the above questions posed by Icon.
     
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  4. DHK

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    Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
     
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  5. Rippon

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    And people who never hear of Jesus and the gospel will also die in their sins.
     
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  6. Revmitchell

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    Just how many sins at one time is unbelief?
     
  7. Darrell C

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    There is a close correlation between unbelief and disobedience in Scripture. The two are clearly synonymous at times.

    Example:


    Hebrews 3:19

    King James Version (KJV)

    19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.



    Hebrews 4:11

    King James Version (KJV)

    11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.



    Sin is ultimately disobedience to the will of God, but, that is not what keeps men from Heaven. Unbelief is displayed by anyone being disobedient to God's Will. So unbelief and every sin fall, in my view, into a same category though we distinguish direct disobedience to the Gospel as seen as reaping a more severe form of punishment than those who rejected Moses' Law (and this goes to severity of punishment based on particular sin).

    What keeps men from Heaven is that in order for men to go to Heaven...they must be born again. That operation of God which includes the remission of sins and transforming that which could no more go into Heaven than we can reach into the television and grab a burger when a McDonalds commercial comes on into something that can come into God's presence.

    I would have to say that it is clear all sin will be punished, as this again can be seen in the differing degrees of punishment we see in Scripture. But at the same time we know that it is the lack of relationship with God that keeps us out of Heaven. Even if it were possible for one not to sin, that would not be the reason God allowed them into His Realm. Babies that die in the womb are a good example of that, because they have not sinned, yet, it is not because they have not sinned that they go to be with the Lord in Heaven, it is strictly by grace they are allowed. That doesn't mean w do not consider what Scripture teaches concerning man's condition, which is one of not having life. We also consider that to obtain life, we must believe in Christ and be born again. At that moment, and not a moment before, then are we made into new creatures having life, fully forgiven, and entering into God's presence through the Veil which is Christ and His death on the Cross.


    God bless.
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    Good verse they died in unbelief they die in their sins
    each and every one of those sins will be punished throughout all eternity that's why and Luke 12 you read up some being beaten with few stripes and some with many stripes
     
    #8 Iconoclast, Oct 16, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
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  9. DHK

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    When one establishes doctrine through parables they err. Parables simply illustrate doctrine that has previously taught. If the doctrine is wrong or has not been taught then it is obvious that the interpretation of the parable is wrong.

    Jesus point is very plain. Scripture does not contradict itself.
    Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Do we believe the words of Christ or not?
     
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  10. Iconoclast

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    All sin is unbelief in the commands of God that they have to be obeyed.
    show anyone dying without the great high priest without a mediator and surety to cover their sins and cleanse sum of all sin will perish eternally having to pay for all their sins.
     
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  11. Iconoclast

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  12. Iconoclast

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    John 8 is not a parable its historic narrative
    Jesus clearly told that if they didn't believe he was he they would die in this sins plural not singular not die in unbelief they would be in unbelief but they would die in their sins plural
     
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  13. SovereignGrace

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    Jesus atoned for the sins of all those who the Father gave to Him, and none shall die lost. His righteousness, His complete obedience in keeping the Law, are imputed unto them. His blood blotted them out. All other sins will be punished in the lake of fire.
     
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  14. Iconoclast

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    Scripture does not contradict itself
    no parable Is being discussed so your point doesn't have anything to do with this thread does it
     
    #14 Iconoclast, Oct 16, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
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  15. Iconoclast

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    All sins listed by Paul are violations of the 10 commandments
     
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  16. DHK

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    John 8:24 is a verse I originally quoted. No problem.
    But look back. Along with that you said:

    Luke 12 you read up some being beaten with few stripes and some with many stripes

    As usual you don't give a full reference, however, I recognize the verse as coming from a parable. Parables do not teach doctrine. They only illustrate it.
     
  17. DHK

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    According to Calvinism, and that is why there is confusion and contradiction in this thread.

    The truth stated clearly here:

    1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Should not be contradicted.
    Christ paid for all the sins for all the world.

    With that said, his command in Mark 16 becomes even that more powerful:

    Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
    --The only way into heaven is by faith in Christ.
    Those who do not believe in Christ shall be damned. It is really very simple.
     
  18. Iconoclast

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    Alright so you talking about Luke 12 what Luke 12 does to each is there are degrees of punishment according to the knowledge the person had of the masters will it does teach degrees of punishment in a no way contradicts the original post about John 8:24
     
  19. Iconoclast

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    Wrong again the phrase the sins of is in italics that means it's not in the original text also the truth contained in the voice of Mark 16 does not contradict at all the premise of the original post
     
  20. DHK

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    There may be degrees of punishment in hell. I won't dispute that. That is not the topic. The topic is how they get there. Christ stated very plainly:

    He that believeth not is damned.

    True or false.
     
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