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Under Grace/ lawless and ignorant?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You are lumping together passages that do not address the question at hand, so you are not making anything clear,just confusing the issue.

    1]No one says we are under the Mosaic law. So why do you keep quoting passages about the Mosaic law?

    2]No one says we are justified by law keeping. So why do you list verses dealing with that topic?
    We are not jews in the theocracy in need of the mosaic schoolmaster to lead us to Christ for justification.....so quoting Gal3:24 is only showing that you misunderstand the issue. I know what Gal3 teaches. If you want to answer questions and make things clear answer these versesl

    Paul said;
    22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

    What law does Paul delight in? here as a christian in Rom7

    In psalm 1 the psalmist says;
    2But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

    Is this psalm not for christians? Is the psalmist a wicked legalist?


    In hebrews10 we are told this;
    [QUOTE 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

    16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

    ][/QUOTE]

    The laws are the 10 commandments. Do you want to tell the Holy Spirit he does not understand Gal3:24? I can hardly believe that on a board of professed christians that God's law would be looked upon as evil to be avoided.
     
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Interesting.


    Iconoclast
    –noun
    1.
    a breaker or destroyer of images, esp. those set up for religious veneration.
    2.
    a person who attacks cherished beliefs, traditional institutions, etc., as being based on error or superstition.


    —Synonyms
    2. nonconformist, rebel, dissenter, radical.
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Here is something even more interesting, it is from Pink's law and the saint;
    [QUOTEWhat has been said above reveals the need for a serious and careful examination of the teaching of Holy Scripture concerning the Law. But to what do we refer when we speak of "The Law"? This is a term which needs to be carefully defined. In the New Testament there are three expressions used, concerning which there has been not a little confusion. First, there is "the Law of God" (Rom. 7:22,25, etc.). Second, there is "the Law of Moses" (John 7:23; Acts 13:39, 15:5, etc.). Third, there is "the law of Christ" (Gal. 6:2). Now these three expressions are by no means synonymous, and it is not until we learn to distinguish between them, that we can hope to arrive at any clear understanding of our subject.

    The "Law of God" expresses the mind of the Creator, and is binding upon all rational creatures. It is God’s unchanging moral standard for regulating the conduct of all men. In some places "the Law of God" may refer to the whole revealed will of God, but in the majority it has reference to the Ten Commandments; and it is in this restricted sense we use the term. This Law was impressed on man’s moral nature from the beginning, and though now fallen, he still shows the work of it written in his heart. This law has never been repealed, and in the very nature of things, cannot be. For God to abrogate the moral Law would be to plunge the whole universe into anarchy. Obedience to the Law of God is man’s first duty. That is why the first complaint that Jehovah made against Israel after they left Egypt was, "How long refuse ye to keep My commandments and My laws" (Ex. 16:27). That is why the first statutes God gave to Israel were the Ten Commandments, i.e. the moral Law. That is why in the first discourse of Christ recorded in the New Testament He declared, "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill" (Matt 5:17), and then proceeded to expound and enforce the moral Law. And that is why in the first of the Epistles, the Holy Spirit has taught us at length the relation of the Law to sinners and saints, in connection with salvation and the subsequent walk of the saved: the word "law" occurs in Romans no less than seventy-five times, though, of course, not every reference is to the Law of God. And that is why sinners (Rom. 3:19) and saints (Jas. 2:12) shall be judged by this Law.

    The "Law of Moses" is the entire system of legislation, judicial and ceremonial, which Jehovah gave to Israel during the time they were in the wilderness. The Law of Moses, as such, is binding upon none but Israelites. This Law has not been repealed. That the Law of Moses is not binding on Gentiles is clear from Acts 15.

    The "Law of Christ" is God’s moral Law, but in the hands of the Mediator. It is the Law which Christ Himself was "made under" (Gal. 4:4). It is the Law which was "in His heart" (Psa. 40:8). It is the Law which He came to "fulfill" (Matt. 5:17). The "Law of God" is now termed "the Law of Christ" as it relates to Christians. As creatures we are under bonds to "serve the Law of God" (Rom. 7:25). As redeemed sinners we are "the bondslaves of Christ" (Eph. 6:6), and as such we are under bonds to "serve the Lord Christ" (Col. 3:24). The relation between these two appellations, "the law of God" and "the Law of Christ" is clearly intimated in 1 Corinthians 9:21, where the apostle states, that he was not without Law to God," for he was "under the Law of Christ". The meaning of this is very simple. As a human creature, the apostle was still under obligation to obey the moral Law of God his Creator; but as a saved man he now belonged to Christ, the Mediator, by redemption. Christ had purchased him: he was His, therefore, he was "under the Law of Christ". The "Law of Christ", then, is just the moral Law of God now in the hands of the Mediator and Redeemer—cf. Exodus 34:1 and what follows!

    Should any object against our definition of the distinction drawn between God’s moral Law and "the Law of Moses" we request them to attend closely to what follows. God took special pains to show us the clear line of demarcation which He has Himself drawn between the two. The moral Law became incorporated in the Mosaic Law, [2] yet was it sharply distinguished from it. The proof of this is as follows:—

    In the first place, let the reader note carefully the words with which Exodus 20 opens: "And God spake all these words." Observe it is not "The Lord spake all these words", but "God spake". This is the more noticeable because in the very next verse He says, "I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt", etc. Now the Divine titles are not used loosely, nor are they employed alternately for the purpose of variation. Each one possesses a definite and distinct signification. "God" is the creational title (see Gen. 1:1). "Lord" is God in covenant relationship, that is why it is "Lord God" all through Genesis 2. In Genesis 1 it is God in connection with His creatures. In Genesis 2 it is the Lord God in connection with Adam, with whom He had entered into a covenant—see Hosea 6:7, margin. The fact, then, that Exodus 20 opens with "And God spake all these words", etc. prove conclusively that the Ten Commandments were not and are not designed solely for Israel (the covenant people), but for all mankind. The use of the title "God" in Exodus 20:1 is the more forceful because in verses 2,5,7,10,11, and 12 "the Lord" is named, and named there because Israel is being addressed.

    In the second place, the Ten Commandments, and they alone, of all the laws Jehovah gave to Israel, were promulgated by the finger of God, amid the most solemn manifestations and tokens of the Divine presence and majesty.

    In the third place, the Ten Commandments, and they alone, of all Jehovah’s statutes to Israel, were written directly by the finger of God, written upon tables of stone; and written thus to denote their lasting and imperishable nature.

    In the fourth place, the Ten Commandments were further distinguished from all those laws which had merely a local application to Israel, by the fact that they alone were laid up in the ark. A tabernacle was prepared by the special direction of God, and within it an ark was placed, in which the two tables of the Law were deposited. The ark, formed of the most durable wood, was overlaid with gold, within and without. Over it was placed the mercy-seat, which became the throne of Jehovah in the midst of His people. Not until the tabernacle had been erected, and the Law placed in the ark, did Jehovah take up His abode in Israel’s midst. Thus did the Lord signify to Israel that the moral Law was the basis of all His governmental dealings with them.

    Thus it is clear beyond any room for doubt that the Ten Commandments, the moral Law of God, were sharply distinguished from "the Law of Moses." The "Law of Moses," excepting the moral Law incorporated therein, was binding on none but Israelites, or Gentile proselytes. But the moral Law of God, unlike the Mosaic, is binding on all men. Once this distinction is perceived, many minor difficulties are cleared up. For example: someone says, If we are to keep the Sabbath day holy, as Israel did, why must we not observe the other Sabbaths—the Sabbatic year, for instance? The answer is, Because the moral Law alone is binding on Gentiles and Christians. Why, it may be asked, does not the death penalty attached to the desecration of the Sabbath day (Ex. 31:14, etc.) still obtain? The answer is, Because though that was a part of the Mosaic Law, it was not a part of the moral Law of God, i.e. it was not inscribed on the tables of stone; therefore it concerned none but Israelites.

    In the chapters following this, we propose to offer an exposition of the principal scriptures in the New Testament which refer to the Ten Commandments. First, we will take up the passages which are appealed to by those who deny that the Law is in anywise binding on Christians. Second, we shall treat of some of the many passages which unmistakable prove that all are under lasting obligations to obey the Law of God. Third, a separate booklet [3] will be devoted to the Christian Sabbath. Fourth, in another separate booklet [4] we shall discuss the nature of true Christian liberty. May Divine grace so illumine our understandings and rule our hearts that we shall run in the way of God’s commandments.

    ][/QUOTE]
     
  4. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother New Member

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    I have stayed out of this but I think it might do you some good to go read in this thread http://baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=68925 I started the thread but I truly believe the Brothers that replied understand that the law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.
     
    #24 Old Union Brother, Dec 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2010
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    here is a quote from post 5 in that thread, do you agree with it?
     
  6. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    I owuld love to continue this discussion but I will be gone for the day. Ya'll play nice without me and I'll try to be back tomorrow.

    This is a good discussion, btw, much to think about.
     
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