Understanding redemption

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Van, Feb 21, 2014.

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  1. Van

    Van
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    Before attempting to understand the biblical meaning of redemption, we need to ask, “redemption from what?” The most consistent picture is that of slaves or captives being set free from bondage by the payment of a price.

    The root meaning of the Greek words translated redeemed or redemption is loosening, with some forms of the word being combined with “apo” meaning “out from.” So the idea of the combined word is to be not only set free but also transported from captivity to someplace else, e.g. deliverance.

    The Greek word transliterated “lutrosin” appears three times, Luke 1:68, Luke 2:38 and Hebrews 9:12.

    In Luke 1:68 we see the prophecy that God visited us and accomplished redemption for His people. This usage presents the idea of being rescued and saved from a bad situation,
    (see verse 71 and verse 74).

    Luke 2:38 references people who are “looking for the redemption of Jerusalem” with Jerusalem being an idiomatic reference to God’s people.

    In Hebrews 9:12, we see that Christ through His blood obtained eternal redemption. This fits the picture of being set free from bondage by the payment of a price. Further, this redemption is eternal; it does not have a shelf life.

    In Luke 21:28, Jesus says of His second coming, pay attention because your “redemption is drawing near.” Here redemption appears to be a function or attribute of Christ.

    So from these examples we can see that redemption is used for more than one purpose, to be redeemed from political bondage (Luke 1:68 and 2:38), from the bondage of sin (Hebrews 9:12) and from the bondage of our corrupt flesh when we are raised or changed in the twinkling of an eye, to glorified bodies. On the other hand, the deliver is always the same, Christ Jesus our Lord.

    In three other verses we find a related word that perhaps should be best translated “ransomed”. In Luke 24:21 we find folks who hoped Jesus was the one who would redeem Israel apparently from political bondage. In Titus 2:14, we see that Jesus gave Himself up for us to redeem us from every lawless deed. And in 1 Peter 1:18-19, we learn that we were not redeemed with corruptible stuff like silver and gold, but with the precious blood of Jesus. It is clear that Jesus paid the ransom with His blood, but it is not clear whether we were set free when He shed His blood, or when we were spiritually placed in Christ and washed with His blood.

    Jesus was both the High Priest who slays the sacrifice and then sprinkles the blood on those receiving the benefit of the sacrifice, and the sacrifice, the Lamb of God.

    Having nibbled around the edges, lets get to the heart of the matter by looking at the writings of Paul concerning redemption. Lets focus on the usage where folks are redeemed from every lawless deed, the bondage of sin. The other two usages seem to apply to the second coming of Christ, and for the time being we are concerned with His accomplishment of redemption in His first coming.

    Romans 3:24 says (NASB), “being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.” God’s grace can accomplish many varied things, and so Paul makes it clear that the grace being given is through or by the means of the redemption [deliverance], which is in Christ Jesus. So this verse points to receiving the benefit of Christ’s sacrifice when we are “in Christ” rather than when He shed His precious blood on the cross.

    Romans 8:23 refers to the redemption of our body, setting us free from our corrupt flesh, and so because this is associated with His second coming, lets move on.

    1 Corinthians 1:30 says (NASB), “ But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption. Here again, scripture pretty clearly teaches that when God put us in Christ spiritually, Christ became via our indwelt Holy Spirit, wisdom from God, provided the righteousness of God to us,
    in Christ we are set apart, and in Christ we are redeemed from the bondage of sin, and delivered spiritually into the kingdom of God.

    Ephesians 1:7 says (NASB), “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.” So again, only when “in Him” do we have the gift of His redemptive grace, which sets us free from every lawless deed, the forgiveness of our trespasses.

    Ephesians 1:14 and 4:30 refer to our redemption from our corrupt flesh. But as a sidelight when we are placed spiritually in Christ, we received our eternal redemption from the bondage of sin, and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit in Christ as a pledge of our inheritance which is to be raised in glorified bodies, set free from the corruption of the flesh.

    Lastly Colossians 1:13-14 completely summarizes the biblical concept of redemption from the bondage of sin. “For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

    May God Bless
     
  2. Van

    Van
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    Redemption plan

    (1) God's plan of redemption included choosing Christ to be His redeemer, and thus He chose us [corporately or as a group and not individually] in Him before the foundation of the world - the group being those who Christ would redeem. You do not choose a redeemer without a plan to redeem.

    (2) Since this redemption plan was formulated before the foundation of the world, since He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, then when God saves someone individually during their lifetime, it is according to His foreknown plan. Thus in 1 Peter 1:1-2 when Peter writes: "...who were chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father by the sanctifying work of the Spirit..." he is telling us God's plan was to choose people by spiritually placing them in Christ, and in Christ those chosen are redeemed. So by placing individuals in Christ spiritually (the sanctifying work of the Spirit) God places or puts us into that corporately elected group - those whom Christ would redeem - thus He chose us (those redeemed) corporately before the foundation of the world, and individually when He put us spiritually in Christ.

    The purpose of the redemption plan is to glorify God, not prove God is fair and just.

    "Every one who is called by My name, and whom I have created for My glory, whom I have formed, even whom I have made." Isaiah 43:7.

    When we repent from our self-centered ways and turn to God we bring glory to God, and because we are fallen, vessels of wrath, and predisposed to sin, we bring more glory to God when we repent and put our faith in God and His Christ.

    Who are the ones who are called by His name? Those that have heard and learned (believed) the gospel of Christ, they are "the called, the chosen and the faithful."

    The Redeemed.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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  4. Yeshua1

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    the Father chose us to be found in jesus, from eternity past, basesd upon His will period, and those so chosen and elected out will be placed By Him into the Kingdom Of Jesus once they prove/confirm their election by receiving jesus thru faith!

    The election of God is on indivual basis, as He knew and called each one of us by name!
     
  5. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    There is not one single solitary verse in the Bible supporting individual election.
     
  6. Yeshua1

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    Strange, as jesus throughout the Gospel of John, and Paul in Romans, were treating salvation on such a basis, as election 101, that God called and saved individual siiners to himself, didi Jesus callas Apostles them one by one individual basis, or just call mass grouping?
     
  7. Van

    Van
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    There a many verses that plainly say God chooses individuals for various purposes, including for salvation.

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 says, "...God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth." Thus we are chosen individually based on God crediting our faith as righteousness.

    The elections of God described in scripture are both corporate and individual. It is not an either/or dilemma.

    Ephesians 1:4 refers to a corporate election because we are chosen individually during our lifetime, after we have lived without mercy.
     
  8. Yeshua1

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    God election is indivial basis, as Jesus died to pay for/atone for JUST those sinners God appointed to receive jesus and to get saved!

    So the calling and election would be just to those sinners, so individual salvation basis!
     
  9. Van

    Van
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    Yeshua1 seems to be without knowledge of scripture. Dr. D. Wallace says corporate and individual election is intertwined in Paul's writings.

    Lets consider Ephesians 1:4. This election occurred before creation, when no human individuals existed. Now a slick Calvinist might claim, God choose individuals as concepts within His mind. But how did the Holy Spirit set them apart through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. No Calvinist answer will be forthcoming. :)
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    There is a "corporate" election by God choosing to have the Church as body/bride of his Son jesus, but ALL of those placed wihtin the church are due due to GOD choosing them to be the receipt of His grace and mercy, NOT due to Him seeing us choosing Jesus by our own free will, nor by Him waiting to see who would come to get saved first!

    God HAD to determine me to be daved by death of Jesus, as I could never come to Him to do by my own sinful no longer free will!
     
  11. Van

    Van
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    More fiction, the opposite of scripture. Did you mean to say the election of Ephesians 1:4 is corporate? I doubt it. But if you did, you were right.

    And yes, all those God places in Christ are placed individually in Christ, thus an individual conditional election during our lifetime, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

    Next, you throw in, yet another subject, as you jump from one falsehood to another. Matthew 23:13 teaches lost, unsaved, unregenerate men were "entering heaven" thus seeking God. So the Calvinist claim only regenerates seek God is pure unbiblical fiction.

    What next, limited atonement? :)
     
  12. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I'd like to see proof of that. You can forget using Romans 9-11. That regards Israel's election, not anything in there about individual election.
     
  13. Rippon

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    Do you realize that before the 20th century that term was not used? It is more often referenced as particular redemption or definite atonement.
     
  14. Van

    Van
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    Thanks Rippon for the information, I use Limited Atonement because that is the published term used in the T.U.L.I.P.
     
  15. Van

    Van
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    Understanding Romans 5:6-21

    6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. Since all men are ungodly this points to Christ dying for all mankind.
    7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
    8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. The us seems to point to particular redemption, those actually saved.
    9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. Here the “being justified by His blood points to all mankind, while the “saved from the wrath” points to particular redemption.
    10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Again, the reconciled to God through the death points to General Redemption, the saved by His life seems to point toward being made alive by being united with Christ.
    11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Here clearly only particular redemption is in view.
    12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
    13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
    15But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. Because the grace abounds to the many, this seems to refer to General Redemption.
    16The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. Here General Redemption appears to be in view, God’s General Redemption acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice provides the free gift of justification, provided the gift is received.
    17For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. Receiving the gift of righteousness refers to particular redemption.
    18So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. General Redemption is in view, the availability of justification of life to whoever believes in Him.
    19For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. The first clause appears to relate Adam to the “many” in that the “many” are “in Adam” in an unrighteous sinful state. The second clause appears to relate Christ to the “many” in that the “many” are in Christ in a righteous state. Therefore particular redemption is in view.
    20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, This appears to have General Redemption in view, with the increasing debt bondage of sin being offset by the boundless ransom paid by Christ.
    21so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. This appears to say the grace of General Redemption exists through the righteous sacrifice of Christ and this grace enables eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord to all who believe.
     
    #15 Van, Feb 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2014
  16. Yeshua1

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    so jesus did not initaite the call to those to be His apostles, they all came to Him first by their "own free will?"
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    paul main point her eis that just as those ALL are now found in Adam have spiritual death pronounced by God upon them, ALL who will be found in Christ will have God pronounce spiritual life upon them!

    ALl will be in one of those 2 groups!
     
  18. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Different scenario. He wasn't calling them to salvation via His shed blood. That didn't come until after His death, burial and resurrection. He was calling them, in the style of the rabbis of His time, as one called disciples.
     
  19. InTheLight

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    Nailed it.
     
  20. Van

    Van
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    Nailed it? What about the fact they believed in God and were looking for the Messiah? So they did not choose Jesus, Jesus choose them partly based on their openness to God's teaching, except for Judas, chosen partly based on his suitability to fulfill the betrayer prophecy. Jesus knew from the beginning what sort of person he really was.
     
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