1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Undocumented immigrants

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by freeatlast, Jun 16, 2011.

Top Posters
Page 4 of 6
  1. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    LOL...you gonna pay for that?
     
    #61 jaigner, Jun 20, 2011
  2. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    As you can see, the legal dictionary agrees with me (see sense 1) :) For being an illegal immigrant there is no punishment (in the legal sense) for being an illegal immigrant. If caught your status is assessed and you are returned. No fine, no prison sentence.

    But, if you are going to broaden the sense of "crime" outside of its legal definition, then by that standard anyone who drives is a criminal since, at one time or another, every driver (I think it safe to say) has gone over the speed limit or in some other way broken some traffic law. So, if one is going to take a broad view of what a criminal is, then you probably fit the bill as well. :)
     
    #62 dwmoeller1, Jun 20, 2011
  3. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    For those who have a problem with illegal immigrants and consider them criminals (or some equivalent), here is a simple solution:
    - liberalize the immigration laws so that anyone who is not a known criminal or intent on harming US citizens can easily and quickly gain legal status
    - grant all illegal immigrants amnesty and full pardon if they go through this process within a specified time period

    Problem of illegal immigration all but solved. Unless one has a problem with poor (or Hispanic) immigrants altogether, this should be a perfectly equitable and reasonable solution.

    Plus it will let us live up to the ideal of:
    "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
     
    #63 dwmoeller1, Jun 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2011
  4. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    22,016
    Likes Received:
    487
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If that were the case, the problem would have been "solved" in 1985, or around there, when Ted Kennedy's amnesty went thru.

    This is what makes you a partisan hack. Resistance to amnesty being born in racism is such a tired argument.

    We HAVE lived up to it, and then some. _
     
    #64 Bro. Curtis, Jun 20, 2011
  5. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Except that the amnesties you mentioned missed the first and very key point I made - immigration laws were not liberalized to any significant extent. Thus, amnesty was granted without changing the conditions and doing away with the primary motivations driving illegal immigration. It does no good to grant amnesty w/o first addressing the key issues driving it.

    But, make legal immigration easy, quick and readily available to all classes of people and you do away with a large motivation for *illegal* immigration.

    Hmmmm...and I never voted anything but Republican (ok, so once I voted for the Constitution party) :) FWIW, my position on immigration is libertarian, not liberal.

    I never argued that resistance to amnesty is born in racism. I merely suggested it as one possible motivation (and not even the most prominent). Unless you are going to deny that it is *a* motivation, I can't see your objection.

    But while we are on it, what other reasonable objections might one raise about amnesty combined with liberalization of immigration laws?

    We have in the past. We no longer do. No immigration is severely restricted, particularly for those the poem describes. We accepted the "huddled masses" from northern and western Europe with basically no restrictions, began protesting and creating restrictions when the "huddled masses" started coming from southern and eastern Europe as well as Asia, now we barely let a trickle of any sort of "huddled masses" in at all.
     
    #65 dwmoeller1, Jun 20, 2011
  6. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    If every American is treated as a security threat when they travel then certainly every illegal should be treated with the same seriousness and held to standards and punishments that protect the security of this nation and be rounded up. This should be done by all police and law enforcement including the military.
    Here is what should be done with all illegals and those who help them. It should be against the law to rent, hire, or give any assistance to them unless there is some immediate life threatening issue which needs to be addressed but then the illegal is turned in even while receiving treatment. Anyone who violates this should be subject to a mandatory 5 years in prison without parole or good time.
    All illegals should be rounded up and put in prison for 5 years no parole or good time if it is their first offence then deported to their home country. If they return they get 10 years no parole or good time and deported. if they return a third time life without parole.
    During their time in prison they should work to support the full cost of their sentence and deportation.
    If they have children they would be taken and deported back to their home country immediately. All this with no discretion of the courts to give any different sentences.
    Every person who is in this country legally on a visa of any kind should be required to wear a monitoring device at their expense during their stay.
     
    #66 freeatlast, Jun 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2011
  7. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    22,016
    Likes Received:
    487
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Like Amercan succeses and other country's failures. When America is no longer attractive, then people will no longer be attracted to it. That is your goal, the leftist democrat/republican pushover position. The libertarian platform is border enforcement. And legal immigration has been steadily increasing since 2008.
     
    #67 Bro. Curtis, Jun 21, 2011
  8. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Life without parole? You serious? You must be joking.
     
    #68 jaigner, Jun 21, 2011
  9. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nope I am not joking. If they defy the law the third time they should get life without parole. They would not have to worry about life if they do not violate the law the third time. If they do it is all on their own heads.
     
    #69 freeatlast, Jun 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2011
  10. billwald

    billwald New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    2
    Costs maybe twice to keep a person in prison than a non-union worker makes in a year.
     
    #70 billwald, Jun 21, 2011
  11. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    You did not read my post or you would not have made that statement as it does nto apply in this case.
     
    #71 freeatlast, Jun 21, 2011
  12. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Catching, incarcarating and deporting are much more expensive than an effective drug interdiction program. If we were not overcome by drug addiction, legal and illegal, the drug cartels would not have free reign from Columbia to the U.S. of A. Key people in high places are bought off all the way from Bogota to the U.S. even though we kept Manuel Noriega in jail about twenty years. He was extradicted to France last year to face(?) money laundering charges. Now what?

    Our economy is controlled by crude oil and opium derivatives, legal and illegal.

    The love of money is still the root of all evil. We have an insatiable lust of material possessions.

    Jesus is still the only remedy for sin.

    Some of these illegal aliens with green cards are born again. Now what?

    Peace,

    Bro. James
     
    #72 Bro. James, Jun 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2011
  13. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Astonishing that someone bearing the name of Christ would suggest this.

    So, you're saying that if Jesus came across a starving, struggling family of illegal immigrants, he'd call the police and tell them how freaking wrong they were? I can't buy that. I believe he would have compassion for them.

    If we're refusing to share the gospel (in word and deed), we're a sorry excuse for a Church.
     
    #73 jaigner, Jun 22, 2011
  14. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    1
    Great, I'm happy that they are saved. Now they should obey the law and go back home and get a green card and come back the correct way according to our law. Right here in town we have many from all over the world who are here correctly, with a green card. I'm not against immigration, just do it the correct way.
     
    #74 Bob Alkire, Jun 22, 2011
  15. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your statements as to cost are incorrect. Please show some figures to back them up.
    If they have a green card they are not illegal. If they are born again and illegal they are still criminals and need to serve time and be deported.
     
    #75 freeatlast, Jun 22, 2011
  16. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Like any liberal the only way they have to defend their non Christian view is to twist what is said. I never said what you said. I said if there was a life threatening issue take care of the issue and turn them in also put them n prison and then deport them. If you are really so concerned about sharing the gospel why don't you go to other countries and do it or go into the prisons if you will as they could hear it there.
     
    #76 freeatlast, Jun 22, 2011
  17. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    AMEN! :thumbs:
     
    #77 freeatlast, Jun 22, 2011
  18. BobinKy

    BobinKy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not SBC (used to be), but I agree with a ‘Gospel response’ toward undocumented immigrants. Immigration and people in many Biblical books go hand in hand.

    ...Bob
     
    #78 BobinKy, Jun 22, 2011
  19. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm all for evangelizing all people which would include undocumented immigrant. I've had many immigrants in my home while they got on their feet which I'm sure many others here have. But they all were here correctly.


    The convention ended up adding the clause “this resolution is not to be construed as support for amnesty for any undocumented immigrant.”

    http://blog.chron.com/believeitorno...t-resolution-to-help-undocumented-immigrants/
     
    #79 Bob Alkire, Jun 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2011
  20. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    I do not know about figures. I do know that illegals with or without green cards is a symptom of the problem not the cause. If we spend the money necessary to reduce drug addiction, we may get less oppressed people crossing our borders--illegally. There is also a major market for fraudulent documents in including green cards and birth certificates. Now what? Most employers do not verify authenticity of green cards. This is exploitation of the masses as usual.

    The real solution is still preaching Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

    Peace,

    Bro. James
     
    #80 Bro. James, Jun 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2011
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 4 of 6
Loading...