Undocumented Workers

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Crabtownboy, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. Crabtownboy

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  2. Revmitchell

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    Were you alive then?
     
  3. rsr

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    Alas, even the history forum is no refuge from what passes as political discussion on this site.
     
  4. just-want-peace

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    When bovine excrement is thrown, with a massive blast of hot air behind it, there is no predicting where it will land!!:thumbs:
     
  5. Alcott

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    Do you remember anyone complaining when that was done?

    Anyway, Yes or No? Should undocumented workers be coming here, no matter what method?
     
  6. Rolfe

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    You guys realise that CTB is trolling you, right?
     
  7. Don

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    Oh, please. They were documented. It was called a "bill of sale."
     
  8. Rolfe

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    I thought exactly the same thing when I saw the OP.
     
  9. Salty

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    #9 Salty, Sep 18, 2015
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  10. wpe3bql

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    In my area, we also have refugees who have been forced by "the powers that be"--who oftentimes are the tyrants in control of either the political powers and/or the native religious powers--especially in the various eastern or middle eastern world regions.

    These aren't your typical "undocumented workers" who are here by their own volition and flood our nation along with their lives of crime, etc. Rather, they have been FORCED TO FLEE to the US, often with little more than the clothes on their families back.

    Do we just lump them in with the ones who infiltrate our borders (both north and south as we're now finding out) and do untold property and/or physical damage to what in many cases our home areas already are experiencing?

    Some Christians have told me that we should do exactly that in our area and will support any political or otherwise person or activist group(s) that share their view that these people need to summarily be returned from where they came only to be killed when they arrive back home.

    Personally, I feel sorry for those Christians who are of a mindset to advocate that sort of action for these refugees.

    Thankfully we do have Christians in my region who feel exactly opposite. These are the ones who see these refugees as people with souls that will spend an eternity in hell if we don't show them the Gospel of Christ.

    This is one of the main reasons why I'm especially looking forward to this weekend's Missions Conference that my church, Lighthouse Christian Fellowship ( www.lighthouseministries.org ), is holding.

    One of the principal leaders is a man whom I've grown to love is going to present the challenge that God has laid on his heart some 20 years ago--to establish independent local churches (and "home churches") comprised mainly of these refugee families, many of which have never even heard of Jesus Christ in their native homelands, much less how to receive Him into their hearts as their personal Savior.

    As often as I can, I try to attend his services at what they've called "The City Church" in Woodbine. In Nashville, Woodbine is a region in "south Nashville" that seems to be the area of Music City USA where most of these refugee families wind up. If they have any religious affiliations at all, it's usually either Bhuddist, or Hindu, or some other variety of oriental religion--or if they came from the middle east, Islamic.

    I think I've mentioned before that within 2 miles of my front door, what used to hold one of those multi-screened movie theaters has been for the last decade or so been converted into "The Islamic Center of Tennessee." Almost every day I drive by it and wonder about the families who faithfully attend there.

    On July 4 of last year, this man invited me over to his very modest, child-filled home for a picnic. He told me that most of the adults there won't be able to understand much English, and some of the food they'll bring with them is a bit different than the fried chicken and biscuits I'm used to, but you're welcome to come anyway.

    He was right. Although some of the children could understand parts of what we Americans there were saying, most of the grown ups didn't--many didn't even know what July 4th is all about, but "a neighborhood picnic is still a picnic."

    One elderly man, probably the grandfather of some the children who were lining up for the ice cream I brought, seemed to be all alone. "Brother Dave," the host asked me if I'd mind sitting with this old man, so I said, "Sure, why not."

    Come to find out that he was an outcast Iranian refugee who'd only been here for less than a year and still struggles to learn how us southerners do things.

    I did my best to strike up a spiritual conversation with this nominal follower of Allah.

    As the local fireworks began to being fired off in the little community park nearby to commemorate America's independence, I showed him from an English-Farsi NT that "Bro. Dave" had lying around on his back porch, what "this Jesus to whom this 'Brother Dave' always talks about to me" did for this man when He shed his blood for him in a nation that now this man's homeland wants destroyed.

    While this man made no visible move to trust "this Jesus," he did say that he'd get his grandson (who's a faithful attender at "Bro. Dave's" wife's Saturday kids' Bible time) to help him know more about what "this Jesus" that "Bro. Dave" has been preaching about to him every time this grandfather shows up at The City Church of Woodbine.

    I'm not much for celebrating July 4th like a lot of the folks in my neighborhood do, but July 4th, 2014, was one I'll not soon forget.

    If you're interested, The City Church of Woodbine's website is: www.citychurchmovement.com/city-church-of-woodbine
     
    #10 wpe3bql, Sep 18, 2015
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  11. Revmitchell

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    What we should do is only allow those people into the country who can and have been thoroughly vetted to ensure the safety of the American people. Know this:

    We, Americans, did not create the need and atmosphere for this type of scrutiny over immigration Islam did. This is not necessary in America because of the hard hearts of Americans it is only necessary because of the evils of Islam.

    There is no reason, excuse, or justification to put Americans at risk and in harms way for any of this. None. So.....if it comes down to Americans being at risk or some innocent refugees not making it into this country then the Safety of Americans comes first. Period.
     
    #11 Revmitchell, Sep 18, 2015
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  12. wpe3bql

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    I understand how you feel about the refugees which my post addressed, but for the most part, these refugees first started arriving here as a result of President Reagan's State Department desire to give the "boat people" who were trying to escape persecution that was taking place during that decade that followed the US's departure from SEA and was subsequently replaced by tyrants such as Pol Pot and the political/military bureaucrats that Hanoi sent to control what was once South Vietnam.

    In fact, my church willingly sought out places for Laotian people, who were fleeing the communist and/or Bhuddist tyrants that grabbed control of that tiny nation during the turbulent years of the late 1970's - 1980's, to establish themselves here and secure housing and jobs.

    By about 1984 or so we organized the Lighthouse Lao-Thai Baptist Church whose facilities are located just on the other side of Interstate 24 near its Exit 59. They have being operating ever since that time as a fully independent Baptist church. That church's pastor, a graduate of Liberty University, will be one of our speakers this weekend.

    These people aren't your typical lazy, good-for-nothing hoodlams. Most of the young people who came to the US during the Reagan Administration back in the 1980's are now middle-aged college graduates of either Belmont or Vanderbilt Universities--or possibly Middle TN State Univ. in nearby Murfreesboro now with children of their own who have little problem in their elementary or high school studies.

    They've integrated themselves into our society quite well as medical or legal professionals that make fairly good incomes for this region.

    Yes, the TSA sometimes lets an "undesirable" alien through the gates at BNA, but that was also the case with the Boston Marathon bombers.

    Like it or not, but both Republican and Democrat POTUS's seem willing to accommodate these refugees, and I've heard little criticism from most of the current GOP candidates of these kinds of refugees.

    These refugees haven't posed much of a threat to the Metropolitan Nashville-Davidson County's crime rate over the past 30+ years that they've become our neighbors--if anything, they've been more the VICTIMS of crime rather than the perpetrators of it.

    Sure, a man needs to protect his own property and family. That's one reason why these Lao-Thai refugees have made their own alarm systems company that services the many homes of this area--not all of which are owned by these refugees. Our church's senior pastor has one of their alarm systems installed in both his own private home.

    You are entitled to your own opinion about how you'd want to keep these Lao-Thai brothers and sisters in Christ if you want to. However, my own opinion of these people (many of whose children have graduated with honors from Lighthouse Christian School over the years) is different than yours.

    God Bless & Praying that you'll have good services this weekend! :wavey:
     
  13. Darrell C

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    This and this might interest you.

    God bless.
     
    #13 Darrell C, Sep 18, 2015
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  14. Alcott

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    Not greatly. In that post of mine I italicized remember, to put it in the same sense as The Boy asking if anyone remembers the era of slave ships. No one on this board remembers.

    As for your reference about the Quackers, they were the UU's of that day; a social movement disguised as a religious movement. There are enough scriptures for anybody-- even atheists-- to pick from in agreement. The hypocrisy of claiming to be an ultra-personal shareholder with God [the "inner light"], while mostly repudiating His Word is sickening.
     
  15. wpe3bql

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    Thanks for the link.

    Having grown up near Philadelphia PA, I'm quite aware of some of the things in which Quakers back in the days of slavery got involved in.

    I remember witnessing to a Quaker once. You see, the town of Quakertown is probably only 15 miles from my hometown in PA.

    Pennsylvania's founder, William Penn, was said to have owned just about all of SE Pennsylvania because the King of England let Penn buy that area just like someone today can buy a huge area of property from a realtor and call it "his own private property," because, in fact, that's exactly what it is.

    Originally the colony of PA was practically all William Penn's land. The word "Pennsylvania" itself literally was derived from the joining of two words: "Penn" and "sylvania," which is Latin for our words "forest" or "woods." Thus "Pennsylvania" literally means "Penn's Woods." I remember seeing pictures of a map that was made back in the 1660's that had "Penn's Woods" where Pennsylvania is today.

    However, a generation or so after William Penn died, the people in and around Philadelphia grew tired of being ruled by the small clique of Penn's descendants, or those who were buddies with them, and applied to the English authorities to change PA's original charter so that land holders who weren't members of Penn's family would be able to hold colonial offices as well.

    Anyway, historically, groups such as the Quakers have been against the ownership of one human by another one, thus they were quite active in the early Abolitionist movement in the US.

    Moreover, William Penn was on fairly good terms with the Indians of that area. In fact, he even signed something like a treaty with them which some claim had a provision which allowed neighboring Indians to seek refuge in and among the European settlers who'd migrated to "Penn's Woods."

    There were several "nations" of Indians who saw the ever-expanding claims of the European settlers as a threat to their lands. Many of these "Native Americans" had no concept of what we call private ownership of land. To these Indians, a deed on a piece of land meant nothing.

    Thus when the European settlers started expanding into the regions beyond what's known as the Appalachian Mountains, bloody conflicts soon arose between the Europeans and the Indians living in that area.

    Between the Indians and the European settlers was something like a "buffer state" that was largely populated by those Indians who were much more friendly to the European settlers.

    When the more war-like Indians started attacking the European settlers who'd moved into their lands, oftentimes the Indians would mount up raiding parties designed to push these European intruders back further east into those "buffer states" in which the more friendly Indians had settled.

    Consequently, both the European settlers AND those more friendly Indian tribes became refugees that were physically forced to seek refuge within what was originally William Penn's own little colony.

    Of course these refugees had no documentation with them so, in a sense, these Indians were, you guessed it, "Undocumented" people that were forced back into the lands that Penn claimed that he'd protect them.

    Strange how history can sometimes affect things that are centuries old--and usually forgotten by most folks--into challenges that we face today.
     
  16. Darrell C

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    Sorry, I thought...

    ...actually had an interest in early protests of slavery.

    Do you also condemn the pro-life efforts of athiests, Quakers, or anyone else?

    And by the way, I did actually speak to some Quakers as I was curious about them, and considered visiting just to find out more. The conversation was enough for me not to bother.

    As far as the point that this took place in the past, that is a sound enough point, but, it should also be pointed out that the thought that every single white person was pro-slavery is not only in error, but the probability that many people were against the practice is more likely.

    The last thing I would say is that while we might view the fact that there are those today who continue to cry out against slavery then, and in fact they were not themselves slaves, we still do not overlook the fact that this practice was evil, and that many black people suffered due to it. Even among those today, who were not slaves, have grown up with relatives who were direct recipients of hatred and racism. Wasn't that long ago when black men were hung simply for being black. Now you go tell the son, or grandson of that man...it's not a big deal, it's in the past, you need to get over it.

    Let me know how that goes.


    God bless.
     
  17. Darrell C

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    Very interesting.

    God bless.
     
  18. Alcott

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    No; the few within the overlapping groups of Quackers, atheists, unitarians, socialists, democrats, et al, who are pro-life in any sense,accomplishes little but to get condemned within those groups, but I certainly don't condemn their efforts.


    Since slavery does still exist today, why is that not the emphasis, instead of "cry out against slavery then?" If you think not enough people [meaning whites] worked to end slavery 150 to 300 years ago, just what are you doing now to end slavery wherever it still exists?
     
  19. wpe3bql

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    The most numerous, and IMHO sadistic kind of slavery that exists today is human $eX trafficking.

    It emotionally --and quite often physically--destroys not only the victim (who can be of either gender), but quite often the perpetrator as well.

    Let's say the victim is--and quite often it is--an under-aged female (I've heard reports that some have as young as 5-6 YO). This has such a ruinous effect on her psychological make up because it's exposed a girl who'd normally be an innocent kindergartener or first grade school girl to things that she's way too young to begin to cope with--yet reports such as this are getting more numerous each year.

    That very same thing can affect a boy that same way. Both genders where this has happened very often will lead to them becoming very promiscuous in just a few short years.

    This sort of slavery is much more subtle than many other forms of what some classify as "slavery," e.g., "Economic Slavery" where some tyrannical despot enslaves a rival ethnic group simply because he's in control of that region. This usually, but not always, occurs in 3rd world nations, but Russian communist dictator Joseph Stalin did this to the Ukrainians back in the 1920's -30's when he forced what was once considered "The Breadbasket of Central Europe" into literal starvation to such a degree that when Hitler's Nazi army invaded the Ukraine in the 1940's--many of the native Ukrainians hailed the Germans as "Liberators."

    This is one reason why my church supports a group called Rescue 1 ( www.rescue1global.org/action/go-teams/nashville-go-teams ). Its local leaders are our church's founding pastor's daughter and SIL.

    Rescue 1 comes under the direct "umbrella sponsorship" of a foundation that our church's founding pastor developed some years ago called Compassionate Hope Foundation ( www.compassionatehope.org ) [CHF].

    This is an organization that God put on the heart of our church's founding pastor years ago, but never fully came to fruition until he suffered an attack of a form of Parkinson's Disease that caused him to break out in convulsive shaking. As a consequence, our church granted him a "leave of absence of undetermined length" so that he could recover from it while our other remaining preaching elders took over the pulpit as well as the other day-to-day pastoral responsibilities.

    After about two years of therapeutic rest, he seemed to be fit enough to slowly assume preaching, and at least some of his other former pastoral responsibilities.

    However, his "medical team" of physicians and therapists warned us that he could suffer a relapse of his physical condition--which they told us that, if this relapse occurred, it'd be a whole lot worse, possibly forcing him to be permanently bed-ridden.

    Since none of us wanted that to happen, we began, with his consent, to seek out a person who'd be our new pastor.

    Unknown to most of us, God was working "behind the scenes" when our founding pastor "happened" to strike up a very good friendship of a man who'd been working with "a congregation of Bible-believers who had everything God wanted them to have except a permanent place in which to meet."

    Over a period of about 2 years or so, this friendship continued to develop to the point that both our founding pastor and his new-found pastor friend sensed that God was moving our two congregations to become one new congregation.

    After much prayer both the leaderships and congregations sensed that this was, in fact, God's doing; therefore, on the first Sunday of 2009 (January 2, 2009) Lighthouse Christian Fellowship (LCF) held its first corporate meetings in what formerly was Lighthouse BC.

    Anyway, this merger freed our founding pastor to become Compassionate Hope Foundation's full-time, on-the-scene, director--a position he still holds today.

    According to reports from the Metro Nashville-Davidson County's Police Department, Music City USA seems to be much more of a haven for $eX trafficking than its 640,000 population would seem to merit. The law enforcement folks also wondered about this too, and even today they'll tell you that there's at least three factors that may be why this is so:

    1) The fact that it is "Music City USA" and thus not only is it the site of many music festivals, but also many other conventions that aren't directly related with the music industry are held here. Our new $10,000,000 convention center that opened a couple years ago had confirmed conventions way up to at least 2025--and that's not counting what the Opryland Hotel & Convention Center does for its conventions.

    2) For Nashville's size, it's one of the few US cities where three different Interstate Highways converge--making it a magnet for at least the entire eastern section of the US--plays much more of a role than a lot of folks would imagine in bringing the drug traffic that it has in from "who knows where."

    And the fact that the Army's huge Ft. Campbell--where its Air Assualt forces of the 101st Airborne Division are almost always deployed somewhere in the world, and is one of the major bases that the Obama's DOD escaped being either closed or considerably downsized is only about 50 miles up I-24 can't be discounted.

    3) The number of immigrants in the Middle TN region, many of whom came where $eX trafficking is a major factor in the economies of that country (especially Thailand), is probably not going to decrease in the foreseeable future.

    When the overall economy hit a slump 8-10 years ago, generally speaking, Nashville's local economy wasn't affected anywhere near as much as it was in some cities of a considerably larger population.

    Then, of course, you have fallen human's proclivity to sin. God's Word does say something to the effect that as the years go by and draw nearer to the Second Coming of Christ, what they did in Sodom and Gomorrah will be noticeably on the rise.

    That's why I'm glad that many of the people at LCF not only support Rescue 1 financially but also in their prayers. Not too long ago Rescue 1 was able to construct one of the very few "safe homes" right here in middle TN that met everyone of both TN's and the federal HHS standards.

    It's here at Rescue 1's "safe house" where people not only can be literally be "rescued" from a life that was once one of all sorts of desperation--often death--to a life that can be redeemed and made anew, but, because it's a dedicated Christian organization, these people are exposed to the Word of God--the only true source of redemption that will last throughout all eternity!
     
  20. carpro

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    It's called trolling.
     

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