Unequally Yoked

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by HappyBaptist, Feb 11, 2002.

  1. HappyBaptist

    HappyBaptist
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    In Genesis 41 Joseph is given an unsaved wife-Asenath. She was the daughter of Potpherah who was the priest of On. If I understand correctly, even her name makes a statement of her heathen god.

    When making Joseph a 'type' of Christ, are we going to far to say that God put His blessing on the marriage between born-again Joseph and unsaved Asenath?

    If we accept this, aren't we giving our daugther's permission to marry unsaved?

    We are the bride of Christ. We are now, we were not when we were unsaved.

    I think that Joseph compromised. He was blessed with sons because we have a merciful God, not because God ordained a marriage between saved/unsaved.

    Thank you for your input! :eek:
     
  2. Joy

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    Joseph may indeed picture Christ, and his marriage to a heathen woman may picture Christ redeeming us who are filthy sinners, (The same goes for the book of Haggai) but we do not get our doctrine out of word pictures from the Old or the New testament either for that fact. (like parables.) The doctrine for the age of grace, or for the church is clearly stated in Paul's epistles to the church in the New Testament. The Bible clearly states that we are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers in II Cor. 6:14, and then it clearly gives us the reason.

    God allowed Joseph, and Moses, and Haggai, and others, in His permissive will, to marry non-Jews for our example. These marriages were pictures that were to help us understand God's grace and mercy to sinners. I Cor. 10:11 He does not allow for this in the church, because the church is already redeemed and ransomed to Himself, and there is no fellowship of the redeemed with the unredeemed in the respect of marriage. This sends an entirely different picture- one of infidelity and impurity. The church is to be spotless, chaste, and clean.
     
  3. HappyBaptist

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    :confused:

    So, am I supposed to believe that this is a beautiful picture of Jesus and His bride? She was unsaved. We, the bride, ARE saved.
    A person cannot claim to be the 'bride' of Christ while unsaved.

    Thank you!
     
  4. Aaron

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    I think it's quite a reach to assume Joseph's wife was unsaved. Don't forget that Joseph was where he was because the Egyptians recognized that the Spirit of God was in him.

    Also, though second in command in Egypt the Egyptians still considered shepherds odious, and Joseph the Hebrew was seen as coming from a family of shepherds.

    That would imply to me that his wife took on the same reproach by virtue of her union with him.

    That' my two cents anyway :D .

    [ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  5. Joy

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    No, it was a picture of Christ's redemption. (past tense) The church is already redeemed, and that is why we can not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. Those men in the OT were Jews, and they married Gentiles. Christ was working primarily with the Jews then, and these marriages were pictures of what was to come- Christ would also offer salvation to the Gentiles and then primarily work through the church.

    The things in the OT happened for the church's example, but the church is now already redeemed. That example became null and void to the world (except to show us what happened) when the Law was fulfilled, and there is a new example given in Corinthians. Light can not have fellowship with darkness.
     
  6. HappyBaptist

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    Even in the Old Testament, we are told to be separate, right?
     
  7. Pastor Larry

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    Why are we making Joseph a type of Christ? Does Scripture do this somewhere?? I think we play a dangerous game when we start assigning types that aren't identified by Scripture. Just because something has some similarities does not make it a type.

    [ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  8. HappyBaptist

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    I started this Post because my Sunday School teacher taught Joseph as a type of Christ and I felt that it was taken too far when Joseph married an unsaved (Gentile) woman because Jesus took the Gentiles as His 'bride.'

    I am uneasy with the 'type' thing because I don't see in Scripture where we are told to do this. When Jesus gave us parables, He told us what they meant.

    Pastor's tell us to take God's Word for what it says. Then, the same fella will give us all kinds of stuff that I just do not see!

    What about Joseph's wife being saved. I thought Egypt was a culture of 'many gods.'
    I don't know how anyone could be saved when Joseph was the only one with God's message (or was he?)and he was in prison.

    Thank you all for sharing. I will watch for your response.
     
  9. Bible Believing Bill

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    Ok,

    Ill show my ignorance here.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>When making Joseph a 'type' of Christ, are we going to far to say that God put His blessing on the marriage between born-again Joseph and unsaved Asenath? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    How can Joseph be born-again when Jesus has not yet lived and died for our sins? I know that the Jews were saved by God, but they needed to make sacrifices to Him to atone for their sins. Isn't being born-again a NT concept?

    Bill
     
  10. preacher

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    Juat a phraseology(?) thing I reckon.
    He had Faith in the true God,& that faith was manefested in his works,i. e. his obediance to the leadership of God.
    Oh...Hello Bill!
     
  11. PackerBacker

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HappyBaptist:
    I started this Post because my Sunday School teacher taught Joseph as a type of Christ and I felt that it was taken too far when Joseph married an unsaved (Gentile) woman because Jesus took the Gentiles as His 'bride.'

    I am uneasy with the 'type' thing because I don't see in Scripture where we are told to do this. When Jesus gave us parables, He told us what they meant.

    Pastor's tell us to take God's Word for what it says. Then, the same fella will give us all kinds of stuff that I just do not see!

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Could not agree more with you on much of what you said and I know your frustrations. I probably would have been one of those guys you got frustrated with. That is how I was taught in school and by the example of other preachers. Find a text, make it into three or more points, grab some illustrations and off you go. When pastors, like myself in the past, see the OT as nothing more than a giant illustration book we will use the same OT story or figure to teach 100 different things. Same thing is done with Christ’s life or miracles. Find the one you think illustrates the point you want to make and use it regardless of the context it is in. Instead of letting the Bible teach us, some are guilty of using the Bible to teach what they want. Some of the worse and most embarrassing twists of scripture I’ve heard have come from special speakers such as evangelist and missionaries, and donation raising speakers. Problem is most people are not frustrated like you are. Many like myself, in the past, daydream through or gullibly accept everything said. Worse yet the entertainment quality is often more important than the truthfulness or faithfulness to the scripture being used. Glad to hear someone else is frustrated by this.
     
  12. ChristianCynic

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    &lt; I know that the Jews were saved by God, but they needed to make sacrifices to Him to atone for their sins. &gt;

    Hebrews 10:11-- Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
     
  13. HappyBaptist

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    "How can Joseph be born-again when Jesus has not yet lived and died for our sins? I know that the Jews were saved by God, but they needed to make sacrifices to Him to atone for their sins. Isn't being born-again a NT concept?

    Bill "

    I believe that Christians were saved in the same fashion in the O.T. as we are now. They believed that Jesus was going to die on the cross for their sins just as we believe (by faith) that He DID.

    The sacrifices were to help them understand the concept because they did not have the Word of God as we do now.

    "Could not agree more with you on much of what you said and I know your frustrations."
    PackerBacker

    Thank you. It helps to know that I am not alone on this.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. superdave

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    PackerBacker,
    I agree. I actually heard a person preaching say at the beginning, "I had figured out my topic and main points, but the Scritpures I kept finding didn't agree with what I was trying to say :eek:

    Scary to think that the Bible was not the foundation for the preaching, but the means to an end, or the "illustration Book" as you put it.
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HappyBaptist:
    They believed that Jesus was going to die on the cross for their sins .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Where in the OT scriptures do you see this?
     
  16. HappyBaptist

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    .Where in the OT scriptures do you see this?[/B

    I had to look this one up. One of those things that I have always believed and never challenged on. In the back of the Thompson Chain Reference Bible there is a whole list on pages 246-249. I realize that EVERYONE does not believe that this is what these Scriptures say, but here they are (and this, I believe).

    Malachi 3:1, Zecharaiah 6:12,13;9:9-10, Micah 5:2, Daniel 2:44;7:13,14, Jeremiah 23:5, Isaiah 9:6,7;32:1-3;42:1-4, Psalms 2:6-8; 68:18; 118:22

    Zechariah 11:12; 12:10; 13:7, Daniel 9:26, Isaiah 50:6; 52:14; 53:1-10, Psalms 69:21; 22:18

    I will re-read these myself since I haven't looked them over lately, and will get back to you
     
  17. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HappyBaptist:
    [QB One of those things that I have always believed and never challenged on. In the back of the Thompson Chain Reference Bible there is a whole list on pages 246-249. I realize that EVERYONE does not believe that this is what these Scriptures say, but here they are (and this, I believe).
    [/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    None of these verses specify belief in a Messiah to come as a prerequisite for salvation. The may all prophesy of the Messiah to come but at no place is a person in the OT told "Believe in the Messiah to come." I believe a lot of people, like you, have always thought this but have never stopped to consider it scripturally. I am not denying that people in the OT were saved by faith. Nor am I arguing that they were saved apart from Christ. However, at no place are they told to believe in Christ to come. However, we are off topic here and so I will desist.
     
  18. HappyBaptist

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pastor Larry:


    None of these verses specify belief in a Messiah to come as a prerequisite for salvation. The may all prophesy of the Messiah to come but at no place is a person in the OT told "Believe in the Messiah to come." I believe a lot of people, like you, have always thought this but have never stopped to consider it scripturally. I am not denying that people in the OT were saved by faith. Nor am I arguing that they were saved apart from Christ. However, at no place are they told to believe in Christ to come. However, we are off topic here and so I will desist.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I will check more thoroughly and get back to you if you don't mind. I am terribly convicted of 'believing' what I am taught, and not really 'learning' why I believe what I believe. Thank you for the challenge.
     
  19. Daniel David

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    Happy Baptist, a couple of thoughts. If Joseph is a type of Christ, it is best to see the bride as non-jewish. It isn't necessarily Gentile. The church isn't gentile. There is neither Jew, nor Gentile... in Christ.

    Second, the born-again question you brought up is valid. However, Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about being born-again as if he should have known about it.
     
  20. HappyBaptist

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
    Happy Baptist, a couple of thoughts. If Joseph is a type of Christ, it is best to see the bride as non-jewish. It isn't necessarily Gentile. The church isn't gentile. There is neither Jew, nor Gentile... in Christ.

    Second, the born-again question you brought up is valid. However, Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about being born-again as if he should have known about it.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    What do you mean about Joseph and his wife. Wasn't he unequally yoked? If my child wanted to marry an unsaved person and I believed that God wanted Joseph to marry an unsaved person, my child will have a case, so to speak.

    So, you are saying that Nicodemus should have already known about salvation before Christ actually died on the cross? That is how I am understanding you. Which, I agree with.

    :cool:
     

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