Unibookism or Ephesians 6:10-18?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Ed Edwards, Oct 16, 2004.

  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Here is what the Holy Bible says:
    Ephesians 6:10-18 (HCSB):

    10 Finally, be strengthened by the Lord and by His vast strength.
    11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can stand against the tactics of the Devil.
    12 For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens.
    13 This is why you must take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having prepared everything, to take your stand.
    14 Stand, therefore, with truth like a belt around your waist,
    righteousness like armor on your chest,
    15 and your feet sandaled with the readiness of the gospel of peace.
    16 In every situation take the shield of faith, and with it you will be able to extinguish the flaming arrows of the evil one.
    17 Take the helmet of salvation,
    and the sword of the Spirit, which is God's word.
    18 With every prayer and request, pray at all times in the Spirit, and stay alert in this, with all perseverance and intercession for all the saints.

    Here is what men say:
    I dispoute this illogic on many levels.
    (But most topics seem to go so fast during
    the week that one cannot work AND get a
    word in edgewise).

    What does the Holy Spirit reveal to you on
    this matter?
     
  2. Phillip

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    He hasn't revealed anything to me yet (or I haven't been listening.) But, I did want to add something.

    All armour including the sword can be either defensive (if you are running away) or offensive (if you are running into the fight).

    Maybe He did tell me that. :confused:
     
  3. Phillip

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    Consider the Modern M1 Tank. It has over 60 tons of which most is armor and a 105 MM gun with typically a side-mounted 50 cal machine-gun. Probably about 30 to 1 armor vs. guns if you don't consider engine, etc.

    Is this tank an offensive or defensive device?
     
  4. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    Ed,

    I do not follow your question ... What is your question?

    Phillip using your logic - The M1 Abrams is a purely defensive vehicle ... and a death trap ...
     
  5. Ed Edwards

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    Amen, Brother Phillip -- Preach it!

    Offensive weapon - used to attack
    Defensive weapon - used to defend.

    In the 1991 war in the Persian Gulf area,
    the Tactical Air Command (Air Force) had
    fighter bombers. The fighter bombers
    bombed the radar (stoping the ability to
    attack other planes) and air fields -
    this is strategic bombing.
    The Strategic Air Command used their
    B-52s to bomb army units in bunkers -
    this is tactical bombing. Since then
    the TAC and SAC have been combined
    under one set of Generals.

    If a weapon is used to attack, it is
    an offensive weapon. If a weapon is
    used to defend, it is a defensive weapon.
    I saw a stylistic fight once where
    the shield was used to attack and defeat
    a man with a sword. The attacker had no
    sword, only a shield.
    The Bible itself says that the shield
    can be used to defeat the enemy - so the
    Bible is right: a shield can be an offensive
    weapon.

    [​IMG] Praise Iesus [​IMG]
     
  6. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    Ed

    You have me totally confused. What is the topic? What is the question?

    Your terminology sounds like civilians trying to discuss the military and then apply that to scripture.

    Is there a private thread that you guys would like to share?

    Wayne
     
  7. Phillip

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    No, but out of curiosity why do you say we sound like "civilians" discussing military?
     
  8. Ed Edwards

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    On another thread (stuck in the archives) it was said:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
    The Shield of Faith is an offensive weapon.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    quoted by Terry:

    Ed, a shield is a defensive weapon. It is used to stop an attack. Soldiers don't normally attack with a shield, they attack with a sword.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Amen!!! Very good point Terry.


    To which i said:

    My hands are such highly honed offensive
    insturments of mayhem and destruction
    that i have to be careful how i pick my
    nose lest i rip my face off [​IMG]

    Look up "offensive" and "defensive".
    It might make a difference. I've worked
    around professional warriors for 32
    years, not to mention i watached a SCA
    fight once. A sword is a defensive
    weapon (as well as an offensive weapon);
    a shield is an offensive weapon (as well
    as a defensive weapon).


    Yes, i have worked with the military
    or in it for 32 years (I've been a studnet
    of the military for 45 years).
     
  9. Phillip

    Phillip
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    The reason I asked is that I KNOW Ed is a tried and true military man.

    And I only have a little over 20 years designing and testing some of the most complex military electronics you have ever seen (actually you probably haven't seen most of it, only the Admirals and Generals get the whole picture us engineers are privy to) and have probably been on more ships, carriers and in more aircraft than most people see if a lifetime. Besides, when you hear of one of those little Tomahawk's hitting its target, part of its brains are my handi-work. AND THIS is the stuff I can talk about. ;)

    ...and I don't even like Tom Clancy :D
     
  10. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Interesting when you have a conversation with people who know what they are talking about. The first converstation
    (off in the midst of a longer/hotter debate)
    was being held by people who had heard the
    frequently repeated non-biblical sermon
    that the sword is the only offensive weapon.
    It isn't, so the metaphor breaks down rapidly.
    but if you don't know the subject field, then
    you end up looking stupid. As usualy, metaphors
    are limited and you have to oberve their limit.
    Again, the sermon that it is important to
    know the "word of God" (whatever that is) is
    correct, just it goes past correct metaphors.
     
  11. James_Newman

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    I think the point of the passage is that you must have on the WHOLE armour of God. This is much more than just wielding the sword. Whether or not any of these weapons can be used to defeat an enemy is not the question. A shield may do in place of a sword against a mortal enemy, but we are not involved in a physical war. If we fail to put on the full armour of God, it is only a matter of time before we are overcome by the enemy.
     
  12. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Amen, Brother James Newman -- Preach it! [​IMG]
     

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