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UNION OR CONFEDERACY

Discussion in 'Polls Forum' started by ASLANSPAL, Feb 24, 2005.

?
  1. CONFEDERACY C.S.A.

    93.3%
  2. UNION U.S.A.

    6.7%
  1. RockRambler

    RockRambler New Member

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    The question I'm asking though is not about the location of the battlefields. The question is about why are 90% of the re-enactors from the South? Why isn't there this great desire among people from the North to re-enact a war that they won?

    Is it a case of Southerners just can't accept the fact that their relatives lost? Why do some of us have to keep justifying the War?

    Our relatives were on the wrong side morally, they lost, so let's move on.
     
  2. delly

    delly New Member

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    Rock, I didn't find that to be true. Of course, on occasion there were more Southerners than Northerners when the re-enactments were of smaller batters. Large Northern re-enactment units didn't travel a long way for battles such as Corinth, but for Shiloh they were well manned. My sons says that for Gettysburg the Southerners were very much out manned. It was a hugh re-enactment. I have pictures somewhere. My son's unit, the 52nd. Tennessee, was not a very big unit (maybe 20 - 25 at the most.
    Of course my son is no longer into re-enacting so I can't say anything about them now.
     
  3. RockRambler

    RockRambler New Member

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    Thanks delly. I can see where travel time would be a factor for both sides of re-enactors. Maybe my cousin doesn't go up North enough to meet many.

    Think it would be interesting to know what those percentages are though, nationwide.
     
  4. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    You are basing your argument on your own prejudice without any basis or factual information. I would guess that there are many reenactment groups up north. If you take some time to do a quick search, I'm sure you would find that I am right.

    Your opinion is that our relitives were on the wrong side, I, and many others would disagree with your opinion, but we are all entitled to our own opinions. [​IMG]
     
  5. RockRambler

    RockRambler New Member

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    JGrubbs....I hope I'm misinterpeting your attitude. If you'll read my posts to delly, I am asking for for feedback and hardly see how that is basing anything on my own prejudice. My wife's family is from New England and it has been my experience in New England that 90% of the historical focus is on the Revolutionary War. The Civil War is rarely mentioned.

    Just curious...if the South was on the right side of the War morally, then why did God allow us to lose?
     
  6. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    The tone of your argument in the post above shows your prejudice to the Southerners and the reeneactors.

    It only makes sense that the majority of the reenactors are located where the battles actually took place, which would explain the number of Civil War reenactors in the South and the number of Revolutionary War reenactors in the New England states.

    God is not a puppet master, the right side doesn't always win. I could ask your question about many different topics...one could be why did God allow Bill Clinton to win in 1992 and again in 1996? Just because someone wins doesn't mean that God was on their side.
     
  7. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL New Member

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    The whole reason and qualifier for using
    Kentucky was that it was a border state and
    you would have heard a vigourous debate
    from both sides...those who are voting
    because of where they live can do so but
    you would have known more about both sides
    in a border state.

    As for a third option I felt there was no
    siting on the sidelines on this issue.The
    sidelines are what you have done ,actually
    comment on how you would be opposed to both.

    Again thanks very much for particpating, by
    all means run you own poll with qualifiers
    and extra options.

    sincerely

    Aslanspal
     
  8. RockRambler

    RockRambler New Member

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    JGrubbs..I apologize, I thought you were talking about me being prejudice because I was asking delly the questions about the re-enactors. I still think though that Southern manhood doesn't allow many of us to put away the Civil War for various reasons.

    As far as my prejudice, they are formed based on being a native-born Southerner with a Masters degree in history, ironically from a Southern University.

    If the South had been on the right moral side of the war, I think God would have allowed them to win, just my opinion though as it is usually dangerous for mere mortals to try assume what God would do.


    WWJD-Walk With Jesus Daily
     
  9. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed New Member

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    RockRambler, just a little warning. You are opening a can of worms by putting forth your education and degree in history. There are many people here who also have many degrees in history and several here have written books and articles regarding the War.

    It's still all about entertainment. Here we have a San Jacinto re-enactment every year, right outside of Houston where General Houston defeated Santa Ana and won Texas Independence. Many Mexican people are also involved in this re-enactment, even though the Mexican Army was defeated.

    It's all about entertainment and finding your roots; putting yourself in that place. I would also suspect that participation is more prevalent among those who have never actually participated in battles or been in the military. For those of us who are not eligible to be in the military, it is the closest we will get to learning what it's like to "fight" for your country.

    Please tell me, what is the difference in watching a play or a movie about war and participating in a fake one while entertaining others?
     
  10. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    Thanks for the applied stereotype, but not all Southerners are uneducated.

    One of the main forces behind all of it was Money.

    Almost all production facilities were in the North, while the South was mainly agrarian, which required much more man-power (no tractors and such). On the big, wealthy plantations, this man-power came from slaves. Abolition threatened the plantation owners, since they would lose their work force, and thus their wealth.

    Let it be noted, however, that not all plantations used slaves, and that not all slaves were mistreated in that many stayed with their masters and family after they were freed. But enough of the wealthy had slaves working their fields, and these owners knew that their way of life would be destroyed. And, much as it is today, the voice of the wealthy was heard loud and clear over the din of what was best for the country as a whole.

    Had I been back in those days, I doubt I would have taken up arms. While I am very proud of my Southern heritage, including Dixie, the Confederacy, and all the rest, I could not stand for slavery.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  11. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    Heritage, not hatred. Having a pride about where you came from is not attempting to put an ethnic group down, contrary to the "political correctness" running rampant in our country.

    Flying a Confederate flag or taking part in a Civil War re-enactment is a personal choice and a personal freedom. Last time I checked, this was still America, and the Bill of Rights were still in effect. With all of the hullabaloo that has went on about states being forced to remove any vestiges of the Confederate flag from their own. I sometimes wonder...

    True, some wounds have not healed. Most any day i make reference to somebody being a "Yankee". Racism is still alive and well (on both sides). Segregation's shadow still haunts the shadows. But, in the end, we are all still Americans, and would gladly lay down our lives to protect our homeland together.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Why wasnt there a choice for "going to Canada"
    Actually, I did vote one of the two options.

    First, let me say, I was born and bred in Upstate New York. Second, I have lived in four Southern states as well as W. Va.

    I believe in the Constitution

    Had I been born in 1756, I would have fought for independence,... for the same reason, I would have fought for the C.S.A. ... States rights.
    When you stop and think about it, England did not fight against the Americians, they fought agains 13 States who had an aggrement to work together for a common cause. ... it was all over States rights!!!

    It seems as though I rember that France was thinking about sending an ambassador to each of the "13 new Countries" Can someone confim that

    Oh well, thats my view

    Salty
     
  13. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    "It seems as though I rember that France was thinking about sending an ambassador to each of the "13 new Countries" Can someone confim that"

    Highly unlikely.

    Throughout the revolution, France had dealt only with representatives of the Congress, not with individual states, and supplied support to what passed as a central government, not to the states.

    Even under the Articles of Confederation, foreign policy was the province of the central government, though its powers were limited to what a majority of states would agree to.
     
  14. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller Active Member
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    Don't mean to be insensitive but on the positive side this does prove conclusively that Rednecks are better shots than Yankees! :D
     
  15. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL New Member

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    As Paul Harvey would say to KenH "now for the
    rest of the story"

    At least 618,000 Americans died in the Civil War, and some experts say the toll reached 700,000. The number that is most often quoted is 620,000. At any rate, these casualties exceed the nation's loss in all its other wars, from the Revolution through Vietnam.
    The Union armies had from 2,500,000 to 2,750,000 men. Their losses, by the best estimates:

    Battle deaths: 110,070
    Disease, etc.: 250,152
    Total 360,222

    The Confederate strength, known less accurately because of missing records, was from 750,000 to 1,250,000. Its estimated losses:

    Battle deaths: 94,000
    Disease, etc.: 164,000
    Total 258,000

    The leading authority on casualties of the war, Thomas L. Livermore, admitting the handicap of poor records in some cases, studied 48 of the war's battles and concluded:
    Of every 1,000 Federals in battle, 112 were wounded.
    Of every 1,000 Confederates, 150 were hit.
    Mortality was greater among Confederate wounded, because of inferior medical service. The great battles, in terms of their toll in dead, wounded, and missing is listed on this site:


    I agree with KenH on one thing it was a sad time
    :(

    http://www.civilwarhome.com/casualties.htm

    http://pbsvideodb.pbs.org/resources/civilwar/mapsandgraphs/gr08.html

    The union did pay a higher toll but they
    were commited to winning and to whatever it
    took because they felt there cause was right
    they did not say "oh my" we cannot sustain
    these loses.They kept the pressure on because
    the tenacity of U.S.Grant his style was to
    attack,pursue,attack,attack some more and
    the consequene were horrendous loses but with
    great risk comes great reward with the foot
    firmly placed on your adversarys kneck. Shortening
    the war and even more death ..I think Sherman said
    "war is hell" it is..it really is.

    KenH here is one more site hope the link works

    http://www.civil-war.ws/casualties/

    Federal Army Casualties
    Killed in action or mortally wounded: 110,100

    Killed in action: 67,088

    Mortally wounded: 43,012

    Died of disease: 224,580

    Died as prisoners of war: 30,192

    Other types of non-battle deaths: 24,881

    Accidents: 4,114

    Drowned: 4,944

    Murdered: 520

    Killed after capture: 104

    Suicide: 391

    Executed by Federal authorities: 267

    Executed by the enemy: 64

    Sunstroke: 313

    Other causes: 2,043

    Cause not stated: 12,121

    Total Deaths: 389,753

    Wounded in Action: 275,175

    Total casualties, 1861 to 1865: 664,928

    Confederate Army Casualties
    Killed in action or mortally wounded: 94,000

    Died of disease: 164,000

    Died as prisoners of war: 31,000

    Total Deaths: 289,000

    Wounded in action: 194,026

    Total casualties, 1861 to 1865: 483,026

    Prisoners of War
    Federal Prisoners
    211,411 prisoners of war

    16,668 paroled on the field

    30,218 died in prison

    15.5% mortality rate

    Confederate Prisoners
    462,634 prisoners of war

    247,769 paroled on the field

    25,976 died in prison

    12% mortality rate
     
  16. CYBERDOVE

    CYBERDOVE New Member

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    I am a first gereration New Yorker, and both of my parents came from the south. Being an African American I would have fought with the Union army!. I know that Abraham Lincoln's main goal was for keeping the union together, and slavery was not his main objective, but it was abolished anyway. ----------My great grandmother was a slave as a girl and she did not leave a pretty description of it to my grandmother, she told stories of cruelty. I feel that slavery most likley would have come to an end in possibly another one hundred years on its own or another great bloodshed would have happened. I sometimes imagined [as a kid]that if slavery was not abolished I could be somewhere right now a slave and working for free!----When I asked my mother if slavery was not abolished would we be slaves?, my mother's answer would always be the same, "only GOD knows" --yes, I would have fought along with the union army. However let us all give thanks to our LORD JESUS CHRIST that we did not have to be involved in that horrific episode in our country's history ---but to always remain in service on the battlefields of our LORD'S-- yours in CHRIST-- [​IMG]
     
  17. RockRambler

    RockRambler New Member

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    Having the benefit of hindsight...which our ancestors unfortunately didn't have, I would like to think I would have fought for the South, being for the right to secede, but would have been able to convince them that the first thing we needed to do was free all the slaves. This would have kept slavery from being an issue.
     
  18. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    Even though I was born in Michigan I am a Confederate all the way. I even named my first Born Robert Edward Lee (two middles names).

    I have always been a big Civil War buff.
     
  19. J.A.B.

    J.A.B. New Member

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    Was working on my paper earlier, and i realized something. i dont think i could have fought under Union leadership!!! i mean, who would you rather fight under, Lee and Jackson, both devout Christians, or Hooker, history's "most noted moral being?" (sarcasim, by the way)
     
  20. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    The War of Northern Aggession started 150 years ago this week
     
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