Until The Fulness Of The Gentiles

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by tyndale1946, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    In Galatians we have these scriptures relating to the prophecy of the coming of Jesus Christ... Following that all that was mentioned here came about:

    4:4 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

    When everything in history was set according to the plan of God according to the prophecy of the OT he sent his Son who was made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem those who were under the law... A promise he made in Genesis 3:15... His purpose and mission.

    In the Apostle Paul's letter to the Roman there is also a prophecy and another fullness!

    Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in... So what occurs when that happens?... A little side note I went to Vines and looked up the his thoughts upon this fullness.. He said: the completion of the number of Gentiles who receive blessing through the gospel... In other words when the fullness comes the blindness is lifted... Then their fullness is also revealed... Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid!... As always your thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated!... Brother Glen
     
  2. HankD

    HankD
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    There is a passage in Luke similar to the Romans passage:

    Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    So, at the risk of a missile attack I would equate the two (Romans, Luke).

    The Luke passage seems contemporary with the AD70 (approx) attack of Titus in which he sacked the city of Jerusalem, razed the temple and took the people captive.

    This period of destruction is the "times of the Gentiles" and will endure for an undisclosed period of time and presumably is still in force.

    However, full preterists believe this (AD70) event was the end of all things, the completion of prophetic fulfillment of both the first and second coming of Christ. "All has been fulfilled".



    HankD
     
  3. Van

    Van
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    What is the meaning of "until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in." Does anyone think this refers to when the last Gentile to be saved is saved? What about the Jews who turned to Christ in the last 2000 years?
     
  4. percho

    percho
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    How does a translator know when to translate into the word, Gentile?
     
  5. percho

    percho
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    I believe that is related to these statements.

    “Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. NKJV Acts 15:14

    and to this agree the words of the prophets, as it hath been written: YLT Acts 15:15 The prophets wrote that God would take out from among the nations (the Gentiles) a people for his name's sake.

    Part of the Israelites have been blinded until God has taken out of the nations (Gentiles) a people for his name sake.

    See my post prior to this one.
     
  6. HankD

    HankD
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    Dispensational view:
    It is/was the period of time given over to the fulfilling of the Abrahamic covenant with regards to the blessing of Abraham's seed (Jesus Christ-Messiah) to "all" the nations of the world (Goyim) not just Israel. "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.".
    Most dispensationalists will say that in 1947/48 with the re-establishment of the Nation of Israel the sunset of the fullness of the Gentiles began.
    The presumption is that when the Temple in Jerusalem is rebuilt then this "fullness of the Gentiles" will be completed.

    Jews who have turned to Christ in the last 2000 years are included in the great commission "to the Jew first and then the Greek" (micro and macro timeline IMO).

    HankD
     
  7. HankD

    HankD
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    The Hebrew word is GOY.
    The Greek word is ethnos.

    HankD
     
  8. Van

    Van
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    How did the Jews over the last 2000 years get saved if they are still hardened. If they are not still hardened, then the fulness of the Gentiles has come in." If the partial hardening has ended and therefore the "fulness of the Gentiles has come in has ended, then the phrase does not refer to when the last Gentile is saved. Waiting for a specific answer that actually addresses the question. I think the idea was until the gospel spread to sufficient peoples outside Israel the Jews would be partially hardened. But since that occurred during New Testament times the hardening ended. Just saying
     
  9. HankD

    HankD
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    A few are saved, God has His remnant always.
    Romans 9:18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

    HankD
     
  10. Van

    Van
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    Hi HankD, I did not see where you said (1) the period labeled "until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in" ended during NT times or (2) the period will continue until the last Gentile is saved.
     
  11. agedman

    agedman
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    Perhaps folks who have posted about the OP are neglecting to see that it is Jerusalem that is "trodden" (that means not having Jewish religious oversight) until the end of the Gentiles.

    Here are a few items to keep in mind:

    1) Jews were ruled by the Jewish leaders of Jerusalem under the final authority of Rome in the time of Christ. It is not a matter of the "political ruler" but one of the religious rule over Jerusalem. That was established in the 1967 during the six day war.

    2) Previously (for the last 2000 years), Jerusalem was "trodden under foot" meaning there was not a significant Jewish presence controlling the religious side of Jerusalem, it was completely under the control of gentile nations and gentile religious influences.

    3) Sense the "reunification" of Jerusalem, the gentile "rule" has the Jewish council(s) as the final authority and the gentile(s) rule by permission of the Jewish authority - particularly the religious rulers.​

    Therefore, the "fullness of the gentiles" began to draw to a conclusion beginning with the six day war and the gentile decline into the great apostasy continues to this day.

    I have lived long enough to not only see the drawing to a close, but the significant rise of Messianic Jewish assemblies springing up in not my area, but in many parts of the world. Such were nearly non-existent prior to 1967, and those that did exist were held in contempt by both Jews and Gentiles.
     
  12. HankD

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    Hi Van,
    I'm not 100% sure what that criteria is or if there is a signal event that lets us know that the fullness of the Gentiles has ended. If we see the temple being built in Jerusalem that would be a good indication that its about to end (if of course this theory of dispensationalism holds water) because it endures "until" said fullness comes in.

    HankD
     
  13. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    There doesn't seem to be any consensus on what exactly the 'partial hardening' of the Jews or the 'fullness of the Gentiles' means, or whether the latter has yet come about. There has been a steady trickle of Jews being saved all through the NT period. This might indicate that the partial hardening has ended long ago, or alternatively there might be a flood of conversions yet to come at some point in the future.

    Whichever is the case, it is in God's hands and there is nothing we can do about it, save to preach the Gospel and support missionaries. What Jews need is the same as what Moslems, Buddhists and atheists need- they need the Gospel. There is only one people of God (Gal. 3:28) and there is only one way of salvation (John 14:6).
     
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21:32

    The 'times of the Gentiles' began with Gentile control over Jerusalem with the Babylonian captivity in 6th century B.C.. 'The clock stopped', all was accomplished with the destruction of the temple during 'that generation' which was the final nail in the coffin of the Mosaic Covenant.

    There is now 'no distinction' between Jew and Gentile except in the minds of Dispensationalists.
     
  15. HankD

    HankD
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    Hmm, posted my response once before kyredneck but it didn't seem to show up...

    Once more:RE Jesus prophecy in Luke 21:24 (part of the Luke 21:32 context), all the action verbs are future tense indicating a later date of fulfillment, would I be safe to presume that you mean AD70 as the future date?

    Interesting that you push the inception date back to 600BC.

    Thanks
    HankD
     
  16. Van

    Van
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    I agree there is no consensus, but I offered my take (partial hardening is over, therefore the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, meaning the gospel has spread to many other nations.
     
  17. HankD

    HankD
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    Van, that is also a very interesting point of view.

    HankD
     
  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in... That is the question... The scripture plainly states that blindness in part (not the whole) is happened to Israel... following is a time period (until) ..the fullness of the Gentiles be come in... I agree with what you said and this is my take isn't the blindness lifted when the Lord returns again not a natural but spiritual blindness?... Brother Glen
     
  19. Van

    Van
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    Hi Brother Glen, yes the hardening of Romans 11:7 resulted in their spiritual blindness. But the duration ended when, in my opinion, the gospel spread to the Gentiles, during the 1st century.
     
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    So then would these scriptures to the Galatian brethren apply to that period?... Brother Glen

    Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
     

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