US Judge Dismisses Prayer Suit

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Marcia, Aug 19, 2006.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia
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    What do you all think about a Christian not being able to pray in the name of Jesus for civil functions? The pastor in this case is a Baptist preacher.


     
  2. Revmitchell

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    Those on this board that do not want Government will be encouraged by this. But God does belong in government. And when the name of Christ is rejected it is against God. For there is no nuetral ground. You are for God or against him. No grey area, no middle ground, no room to leave God out. A christian cannot support this move. For it would bother their conscience as the Holy Ghost speaks to them.
     
  3. LeBuick

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    Marcia, here is my opinion,

    I was invited a few years back to do the invocation at the city council meeting. Sure they warned me and I said I'll do my best. Not only did I thank God for sending his darling son Jesus who hung bleed and died on calvery, I offered my prayer in the name of Jesus repeatedly at the end until everyone in the room repeated it. I got applause for the prayer????

    I have not been invited back and if I were, I would again pray from my heart. It is the only way I know how to pray. My feelings are if they want me, they want Jesus. I am set to defend his Gospel.
     
  4. Daisy

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    Sounds right - in the US, government is of the people, by the people, for the people, not of Christians only, by Christians only or for Christians only.

    I think Turner is being disingenuous.
     
  5. Magnetic Poles

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    The government belongs to everyone, not just Christians. The government cannot favor one religion over another, nor religion over non-religion. We have our homes and churches, we do not need to push religion via the state. Keep them forever separate!
     
  6. KenH

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    I was chosen to give the invocation at my high school graduation. I had to write the prayer down and the teacher that read it came back to me and told me that I could not end it with "In Jesus' name" so as not to offend Jews in the audience. I was told that I could end it with "In Thy Name" and did so.
     
  7. Not_hard_to_find

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    When I pray, I do so in the name of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. For the government to deny my doing so is most certainly an infringement of my rights.

    Perhaps it would be better if there was not an opening invocation in order not to offend anyone. Otherwise, everyone in the room would have at least one point whereby they would be offended. I believe that is the end goal of those who would remove all religion from all government.
     
  8. Not_hard_to_find

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    Is that not a governmental agent making a 'law' regarding religion?
     
  9. KenH

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    Yes, it was.
     
  10. The Galatian

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    There's a simple test here. Would you be all right with someone doing a prayer from Wicca or Islam, as well as a Christian prayer at your local council meeting?
     
  11. KenH

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    If the vast majority of the constituents were adherents of Wicca, or of Islam - yes.
     
  12. Marcia

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    This is one of the questions I was thinking of asking as well.

    I think this brings up several issues:
    1. If only non-sectarian prayers can be said (with no mention of Jesus), are they really prayers? Are they not rendered meaningless?
    2. The question asked by The Galatian - if we think Christians should be able to pray at civil functions (let's keep schools out of it for the moment - this was a city council meeting), then should we not be okay with allowing Wiccans, Muslims, or Hindus to pray in their manner? The Wiccan might pray to or call on the Goddess, or to some pagan god.
    3. Should a Christian agree to pray without mentioning Jesus?
    4. Should prayers be offered at all at civil functions?

    As our society gets more pluralisitic, these issues are only going to increase and Christians should be thinking about them.
     
  13. tinytim

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    If the person praying was wiccan, or muslim, I would expect them to pray the way their religion dictates... doesn't mean I would agree with them in prayer, but to deny them this right, would ultimately deny my right to pray the way my religion dictates...

    If someone wants me to pray, I pray to Jesus. He is my Savior and to do otherwise is to deny Him. If they don't like it, or are offended with it, they do not have to agree with me in the prayer.

    To try to stop me from praying in the name of Jesus, is denying me my religious freedom, the same freedom that patriots have died for.

    God is going to judge this country and all the yellow bellied cowards that call themselves Christian, but are to afraid to offend others by serving Christ.
     
  14. The Galatian

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    That's morally consistent, at least, and a respectable position. However, it is not permitted by the Constitution, which prohibits any establishment of religion whatever.

    So long as you do it on your own, without governmental endorsement, that is your right.

    As they said, they fought to keep America free of established religion. If you stand up in a council meeting and give praise to Jesus, it's your perfect right to do so, so long as it is not offically endorsed by the government.

    Christ neither wants nor needs the endorsement of the city council. As Madison said, those who try to do it, do a grave disservice to God.
     
  15. tinytim

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    First of all the Constitution prohibits the congress from establishing a religion...

    Second, the definition of established religion has been distorted...an established religion is the official religion of the country. Someone that prays in Jesus' name at a town council meeting does not establish a religion.

    Now where does it say congress cannot, endorse a religion.

    How many shoes has Michael Jordan endorsed? Now which one is the established shoe of basketball.

    Congress could actually endorse every religion out there, and it would still not make it established.
     
  16. The Galatian

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    But the XIV Amendment requires the states to also observe our religious freedoms, including non-establishment. Next.

    No. The Lemon Test, (Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971)) clarifies what establishment is:

    First, the statute must have a secular legislative purpose; second, its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion; finally, the statute must not foster "an excessive government entanglement with religion."

    Yep, it does. See above.

    Yep. It does. See above.

    Irrelevant. Michael Jordan is not the government.

    Nope. See above.
     
  17. LeBuick

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    I would expect him to pray to his God, it is the only God he knows. While he is praying to his God, I will be praying in my heart to mine. We should all be partitioning our God to move his will into the midst of the meeting.
     
  18. Alcott

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    There was a recent case, somewhere, in which a wiccan sued for the right to begin a local government meeting with a prayer, since there is an invocation at the beginning. She had the AU and ACLU behind her in the case. Their legal theory was that, as long as there is a prayer at the meeting, a person--member of the local milnisterial alliance-- cannot be refused the same privilege as other ministers receive. But I don't remember any concern stated about the content of the prayer she wanted to pray. Were they [her counsel] going to turn right around and sue her is she prayed specifically to 'the goddess' as they would do if a minister invoked the name Jesus?
     
  19. carpro

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    I can only say what I would do.

    If asked to pray publicly, regardless of the forum, I will pray in the name of Jesus.

    Politics and political correctness have to take a back seat to my faith.
     

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