USA President Attends Church in CHINA

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by bb_baptist, Nov 19, 2005.

  1. bb_baptist

    bb_baptist
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    Trying to send a message to China's leaders, Bush opened the day by attending church services, taking a front-row seat with his wife, Laura, at Gangwashi Church, one of five officially recognized Protestant churches in Beijing.

    "It wasn't all that long ago that people were not allowed to worship openly in this society," the president said after the hourlong service. "My hope is that the government of China will not fear the Christians who gather to worship openly. A healthy society is a society that welcomes all faiths."

    Bush, however, chose to make the worship service his first public event during a two-day state visit to China. The significance of Bush's visit to the church, a modest marble-and-brick building tucked off an alley, was clear to the congregation of about 400.

    Bush received a standing ovation when he entered the sanctuary, which looked much like a classroom with wooden movie theater seats. There was more applause when the pastor announced his presence, and members of the choir assembled outside to see Bush off afterward.

    "The spirit of the Lord is very strong inside your church," Bush said.

    The service at Gangwashi Church was in Chinese, but its structure and content would have be familiar to any Protestant parishioner in the United States. Bush and other guests listened to a translation over headphones.

    In the church's guest book, Bush wrote "May God bless the Christians of China."

    Under the president's inscription, the first lady wrote: "And with love and respect, Laura Bush."

    This month, the State Department cited China, a land of 1.3 billion people, as one of eight countries of "particular concern" for denying religious freedom. The White House urged China's state-controlled media not to censor news of Bush's visit, which includes meetings and dinner with China's top leaders.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/19/D8DVUR0G0.html
     
  2. Rachel

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    I think that's great. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  3. mioque

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    Look that church has a female pastor!

    Religiously motivated Bush bashing will commence in 5..4..3...2..1


    (on a more personal note, good move by the POTUS) [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  4. Artimaeus

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    I like that he decided to attend a church service in Chine which wroships Christ. I am not bashing Bush but, I am bashing this statement. This just isn't true. Suppose I said, "A healthy heaven is a heaven that welcomes all faiths.", or "A healthy church is a church that welcomes all faiths.". It just isn't true on a small scale and it isn't true on a large scale.
     
  5. guitarpreacher

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    I like that he decided to attend a church service in Chine which wroships Christ. I am not bashing Bush but, I am bashing this statement. This just isn't true. Suppose I said, "A healthy heaven is a heaven that welcomes all faiths.", or "A healthy church is a church that welcomes all faiths.". It just isn't true on a small scale and it isn't true on a large scale. </font>[/QUOTE]Good quote! Put it in the context of where he is and who he's talking to. Christians are persecuted there. Society is not the church, and is certainly not heaven. If the quote is not true then the opposite must be true. Which means you would be in favor of the U.S. outlawing all religions except Christianity. So you think a society where only one religion is accepted, even if it is Christianity, is a healthy society?
     
  6. Seth&Mattsmom

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    I thought that Chinese churches (government accepted ones, not the underground home churches) were shunned by true believers because of the restrictions the gov. has put on worship, and the gov. edition of the Bible. Why do you think Bibles are smuggled into China? I got this info from "China's Christian Millions, the Costly Revival" by Tony Lambert

    So who cares if Bush approved the church there?
     
  7. TexasSky

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    *Sigh*

    Many of you simply do not understand the importance of what was done.

    China and the USA are the only two Super Powers left in this world.

    The President of the USA took a stand on behalf of Christians and on behalf of the freedom to worship.

    He offered support to Christians who need to know that their efforts to achieve the right to worship Christ are not being forgotten or ignored by the world.

    For a world leader to stand up for the rights of persecuted group is a TREMENDOUS thing.
     
  8. Seth&Mattsmom

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    But he didn't...not really. Now if he went to a home church and took a stand, THAT would be tremendous.

    China allows Christianity IF they worship in their government regulated church and read the approved Bible. There are millions of Christians who will never step foot in those churches in favor of the Truth. Bush approving or giving support to the gov. church is not freeing the persecuted to build their own house of God or to read the unedited Bible.

    China's believers are living in a time similar to the protestant Reformation.

    I am sorry that I disagree with you or do not understand, but I don't!
     
  9. guitarpreacher

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    So you would feel better if Bush had went to an underground house church, with full press corp in tow, knowing that the moment his plane leaves china all the members of that church will be rounded up and inprisoned at best, killed at worse.
     
  10. Seth&Mattsmom

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    No, of course not!!!

    But see, that is how meaningless his visit was to me...that he couldn't do just that as a symbol of us backing Christianity in China.

    Now if you can explain things to me better that is fine. I have no problems with trying to understand...I just don't understand his visit right now, knowing what I do know about persecution.

    I wonder how the underground churches feel about his visit? That is some insight I would love to have.
     
  11. guitarpreacher

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    I'm not sure exactly what it is you think he should have done. He went to a place where Christians are persecuted and spoke out against the persecution. What more could he do?

    To meet with the underground church would place their lives in danger. If they wanted their lives to be in danger, they wouldn't be in an underground church.
     
  12. Seth&Mattsmom

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    I guess because I don't see their Christian churches as Christian, to me, he might as well gone to a buddist temple and done the same thing.

    I don't want him going to an underground church. that wasn't my point.

    Perhaps I am looking at it too much as black and white.

    It's okay to not understand me. I am not good at debating. You all can finish this one and let me just listen to the rest.
     
  13. guitarpreacher

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    I think it would be wrong to assume that leaders in the "official" church are not true Christians simply because they chose to be part of the "official" church. I can see where a geniune Christian might feel that he/she could have a bigger impact on their community working through the official church as opposed to the underground church.
     
  14. TexasSky

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    I'm sorry, but what he did, as he did it, ~MIGHT~ help Christians in China. Whether you approve of the church he visited or not.

    However, going to an underground church and doing what he did would have accomplished absolutely nothing good, and probably would have resulted in murder later.

    If he went to an underground church and said, "Let them worship freely," he could be painted as condoning illegal gatherings. He would be breaking Chinese law and could be ignored.

    If he went to an underground church they would FIND the underground church.

    The message was there - whether you like the church or not. "Let Christians worship Christ freely."

    What he was absolutely unheard of. He - an American President - visited a Non-Christian nation and TOOK A PUBLIC STAND in favor of letting Christians worship Christ where and when they want.

    If he had done it on the back of a fish-boat it would STILL be an amazing thing.
     
  15. LadyEagle

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  16. canadyjd

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    I agree with TexasSky. This was an important moment. The President of the U.S. publicly took issue with the official Chinese position, right in their own backyard.

    In a country where persecution of Christians is a daily event, this is no small thing.
     
  17. Rachel

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    No, it's not a small thing. I bet the Chinese officials fumed over that. I wonder how many of Pres. Bush's advisors tried to get him not to do that. lol
     
  18. Enoch

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] God Bless President Bush!

    Great picture!
     
  19. Psalm 100

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    Hi, Newbie here with my 2 cents worth....

    What GWB did is send a message that the leader of the free world worships in a Christian church. It may be state sanctioned, but it is still the safest place to worship. I believe the Spirit is moving in China, and GWB's presence and statements are a part of God's plan to bring them to Christ.
     
  20. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Please allow me to put forth another possibility and see what you think:

    If Bush had gone to an underground Church with international media in tow, and interviewed some of the Christians about their plight in China, yes it could have put them in jeopardy. On the other hand, however, it could have:

    1. Given them legitimacy instead of being viewed as rogue law breakers to have probably the most powerful man in the world visit them and then speak up for them.

    2. Given them more media attention and put China on notice that the whole world is watching to see how they will treat their own people. The message to the government could have been the same message that Reagan sent to Gorbachev many times about political dissidents in the USSR - we cannot have a good relationship until human rights and democracy becomes a priority. If I were a Chinese official, I would at least be a bit hestitant to do harm to a group of people who were just on camera with the president endorsing them and their cause in front of the whole world. Especially if I knew my nation's economy and stability could be threatened by the way I potentially acted.

    3. And that the United States is not going to allow China to portray itself as an open society that allows freedom of religion with the state sponsored Church with President Bush's stamp of approval. He will, instead, expose the truth of the oppressive society and demand true freedom of religion and not just the state sponsored show. The picture of the state sponsored show kind of makes me sick. It almost gives the illusion that China is opening up to freedom of religion and gives no context of the reality of the oppression that continues today. Everybody in the picture seems so happy to have their freedom of religion there in China at their state sponsored church. Don't they? Freely worshipping God as they are led by the spirit...right?

    Thoughts? Comments?

    Joseph Botwinick
     

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