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Using drama in worship, ministry and the life of the church

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by tenor, Sep 11, 2007.

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  1. Seasonal pageants

    26 vote(s)
    56.5%
  2. Sketches in worship - comic or serious

    26 vote(s)
    56.5%
  3. Dramatic readings in worship

    29 vote(s)
    63.0%
  4. Monologues in worship

    22 vote(s)
    47.8%
  5. Liturgical dance/movement

    16 vote(s)
    34.8%
  6. Mime or pantomime

    14 vote(s)
    30.4%
  7. Dinner Theater - outreach or fellowship

    28 vote(s)
    60.9%
  8. Sketches for fellowship times

    26 vote(s)
    56.5%
  9. No drama should be used as part of a worship service

    11 vote(s)
    23.9%
  10. No drama should be used at all

    2 vote(s)
    4.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. tenor

    tenor New Member

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    We can settle this quickly, Show me a scripture where using dramatic forms (plays, sketches, dance, movemnet, mime, monologues, readings, story telling, etc.) is forbidden.

    How are you absolutely sure they "shunned all these seemingly wise and powerful methods of communication. Why? Because God rejects them. Why? Because no flesh will glory in His Presence. (1 Cor. 1:29)"? That is specualation at best. Cold this quote not also apply to preachers and other leaders who use the only allowed techniques?
     
  2. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes <img src=/jrhodes.jpg>

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    What about visual learners? Why make it harder for them to grasp the truths of Scripture?
     
  3. Cutter

    Cutter New Member

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    Very well put, Aaron. I checked no drama should be used in worship service.
     
  4. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    You are of course correct in that a "story" can be a factual account - we talk of "newspaper stories" for example, and "newshounds" saying things such as, "There could be a story in that."

    Nevertheless, when you "relate the account of David and Goliath," it is (I am sure) a factual account - you are not putting on an act, pretending to be someone other than yourself, and you are not making the story up.

    It is striking that in spite of the high esteem in which the theatre was held in both the Greek and the Roman worlds, not once do we read of any Christian in the New Testament putting over the gospel through acting. singing or any other art-form.

    Preaching the gospel was foolishness, but it is God's appointed way. As I often say, I am willing to be corrected by those more knowledgeable in NT Greek, but as I understand it, the word translated "preaching" in verses such as 1 Corinthians 1.21 refers to a message such as that announced by a herald, not a dramatic performance:

    For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    I prefer not to limit God either. But if we say, "They won't understand if we don't put on a dramatic performance," we are limitting God's power to raise those dead in trespasses and sins to new life in Christ Jesus.
     
  5. tenor

    tenor New Member

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    David,

    I think we are possibly saying the same thing only not using the same terminiology. I too, agree with your statement about people not being able to understand, don't foget Paul also said - I've become all things to all men that I might save some." My own opinion and conviction is that in this phrase he is allowing us to use a variety of approaches to reach people, even if a specific technique or practice is not mentioned.

    I guess you wouldn't think it appropriate having a person telling the D&G story as one of the Israelite soldiers observing it or a shepherd or wise man telling of the nativity. What do you think of setting biblical stories in modern times? I however, have no problem with either of these.

    There is well written Christmas script entitled "Bethlehem PA" that tells the Christmas story as if it may have happened today. Josepph is an out of work carpenter traveling to Behtlehem for a job, all the motels are full because of a convention in town, they find refuge in the barn of a man whose hause is about to be repossed by the bank, the shepherds are out of work steel workers, the wisemen bankers. Very meningful and workable script. I heartily recommend it. Not using it this year probably will next year.
     
  6. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller Active Member
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    So a line from an ancient play is acceptable in Holy Scripture but a drama would not be acceptable in Man's worship?
     
  7. standingfirminChrist

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    what ancient play are you referring to?
     
  8. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush New Member

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    The gift of teaching and the office of Pastor and teacher was not given in vain by God. The teaching gift is a supernatural spiritual gift that enables a man with that gift to instruct others in the Scriptures. It is not the same as the natural gift of teaching that are part of the intellectual capacity found in all of the human race. That too is a capacity but it is NOT the same as the supernatural teaching gift given by God the Holy Spirit as well, the office of Pastor and teacher (often abbreviated Pastor/teacher) was given to the church so that the body of Christ would have one who taught with authority in the local church. Shunning this, by-passing this, altering this or attempting to replace it is a slap in the face to the protocol plan of God as revealed in Scriptures.

    You want a dramatic event have one I suppose but it is never an acceptable replacement for the divine method and gifting for the communication of God's Word.
     
    #68 Alex Quackenbush, Sep 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2007
  9. tenor

    tenor New Member

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    I still don't see how drama and "gifting for the communication of God's Word" are necessarily mutually exclusive of each other. I prefer to see a multitude of method, yo seem to prefer one and only one way to define it.

    I guess we need to agree to disagree on this one.
     
  10. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush New Member

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    Well I'll tell you what. You attend a church that provides a dramatic skit each week and I'll attend one that provides instructive teaching via a teacher and we can see who is able, over time to be "transformed by the renewing" of their mind.

    If drama is fine then it should and would work every week, day in and day out. If it is inferior and doesn't work then it should be abandoned. Unless of course someone is simply looking for entertainment or a break from doctrinal instruction...but then they are just playing games at that point and turning the assembling into a self-serving indulgence. Yes, we do disagree on this one.
     
  11. tenor

    tenor New Member

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    Why must it be either/or and not both/and?

    i never once said preaching and "doctrinal instruction" should be abandoned for dramatic expression, I suggest it is another approach to ministry along with all the other things we do in the life of the church and in worship.

    Entertainment is a much maligned word. What does it REALLY mean - "to hold the attention of!" not "to amuse." we need to use the actual meaningof the word and not its perceived meaning.
     
    #71 tenor, Sep 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2007
  12. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush New Member

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    Do you really imagine that one is equal to the other. Look, in reality one is going to turn out to be superior and the other inferior regarding its effectiveness in communicating and teaching Bible doctrine. Which one do you see used exhaustively in the Bible? Why, if something is inferior in its effectiveness would it be used?
     
  13. tenor

    tenor New Member

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    So preaching is the only way?

    Preaching does carry the bulk - If I inferred otherwise, it was unintended. There is aplce for vsariety in presentation. Do you always preach in the same way? Do you always use the same teaching technique when before a group?
     
  14. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush New Member

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    I use the same technique for driving, tying my shoes, eating, budgeting and so on. Why? Because I have found that the technique that is most effective and efficient and gets the best results is the one that should be used and once it is discovered unless some providential demands are placed upon me requiring otherwise, I will indeed use that most effective and efficient technique and it would be foolish to abandon it for a less effective method.
     
    #74 Alex Quackenbush, Sep 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2007
  15. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Thanks, Cutter!
     
  16. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    So despite the fact that we serve a wonderfully creative God, we are not to use that creativity in the worship of Him?

    I also don't get the reasoning of, "well, if it's really effective, you'll use it every week." My wife makes a doggone good beef strouganoff...but I don't want it every meal. With that line of reasoning, we should sing the same songs every week....or preach from the same passage.
     
  17. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Adding here: I'm firmly convinced that the central event of worship is the preaching of the Word.

    Just want ya'll to know where we're in agreement...
     
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    So far, no one has said that drama is off-limits entirely, though I see that one or two checked that option in the poll. We're just saying it isn't worship. Not spiritual worship anyway.

    I think, however, one should avoid portraying Christ. For this reason: There is absolutely no way a man with the law of sin reigning in his members is going to reflect the perfect righteous and power of Christ's words in his play-acting. The testimony of the temple officers was, "Never man spake like this man." This will only have the effect of bringing Jesus down to our moral level in the eyes of the spectators. In Ben Hur, you never saw "Christ's" face, or heard Him speakā€”an excellent choice on the director's part, though the girlish long hair was a bit much. In the stage productions of Ben Hur, Christ was represented by a shaft of light.
     
  19. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    No, tenor, I don't think we are saying the same thing. Let me use two of your examples to show what I mean

    1. The Nativity from a Shepherd's Point of View: (I say "shepherds" rather than including the wise men because I believe the bible accounts show that it was up to two years after the birth of Jesus that the wise men made their visit.) I might ask children in a bible club/Sunday School, or adults who were new to the bible, something such as, "How do you think the shepherds felt when they suddenly saw God's messenger standing in front of them in the middle of the night?" After they had answered, I would point them to the answer given in Luke 2.9.

    2. The Nativity Account Retold as if it were Happening Today: The immediate question is, "Why?" Joseph was not out of work, neither were the shepherds - indeed, we are specifically told that the shepherds left their work temporarily in order to visit the new-born Saviour. The bible tells us why Joseph and Mary were going to Bethlehem. They didn't find refuge in the barn of a house about to be repossessed. Why change all these things? Yes, you might need to explain what a "shepherd" is to life-long city dwellers, but so what? There are several passages in the bible where shepherds are mentioned which don't make sense even to people who are country-dwellers, unless they know how shepherds in bible times did their job. (For instance, English shepherds drive their sheep before them; bible shepherds led their sheep).

    I should stress, though, I am not saying that we have to use archaic words and phrases.
     
  20. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller Active Member
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    The Play is named Thais. Paul quoted the Greek Playwright who wrote this play in 1 Cor 15:33.

    The line "Evil Communications ruins good morals" is a direct quote from Menander the playwright. You can find it referenced in the footnotes to the Geneva Bible.
     
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