Using School Buses to Evacuate

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ballfan, Sep 22, 2005.

  1. ballfan

    ballfan
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  2. here now

    here now
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    I think NO is too, THIS time.
     
  3. OldRegular

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    Last year there were four hurricanes that hit Florida [I believe that is correct.]. The response of FEMA and associated first responders [Red Cross, Salvation Army] was timely and effective.

    During hurricane Katrina the response was totally different. We know that the Governor of Louisana was totally inept but we also know that she kept the Red Cross out of New Orleans and delayed turning the National Guard over to the Federal government. The response of the Mayor of New Orleans is not worth comment.

    Question: Is it conceivable that the response of the Governor and mayor was politically motivated to embarass Bush?
     
  4. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    I don't know if this will post or not but here goes. It came from Limbaugh and makes a great point.

    What a Difference Competent Leadership Makes

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Johnv

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    Well, if it came from Limbaugh, it ust be accurate then. Hindsight is 20/20. The "flooded schoolbus" issue wasn't an issue until after the fact. Have we forgotten that the problem with N.O was not Katrina, but the broken levees? No one reasonably forsaw it happenning at this time. We need to stop playing the blamegame. All it does is reveal our sinful nature.
     
  6. carpro

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    I don't believe so. They are just inept and incompetent. They couldn't put on that good an act.
     
  7. Lamin Dibba

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    [Well, if it came from Limbaugh, it ust be accurate then. Hindsight is 20/20. The "flooded schoolbus" issue wasn't an issue until after the fact. Have we forgotten that the problem with N.O was not Katrina, but the broken levees? No one reasonably forsaw it happenning at this time. We need to stop playing the blamegame. All it does is reveal our sinful nature.]

    Yes, johnv, let us all quit the blame game, as long as all of us say "uncle" at the same time . . . when Katrina passed by New Orleans on Monday everyone was all smiles. They thought they'd dodged the proverbial bullet. It was only when Tuesday dawned that all concerned realized just how bad it was going to be. That includes all levels of government, yet soon we had the news media sticking microphones in the faces of traumatized local officials who soon began blaming people for what was, by definition a natural diaster.

    Should Mayor Nagin have used the buses to evacuate citizens from New Orleans? Yes, but that was no guarantee that they would leave. I saw one survey done before the storm that indicated that up to 25% of the citizens would not evacuate.

    On the other hand, what if Nagin evacuated the city using the buses and Katrina didn't cause the city to flood? What if an incident happened during that evacuation like just happended today and 20+ people died in a bus fire during an unnecessary evacuation?

    In fact, there was a lot of things that happened that were outside human control. THAT'S WHY THEY CALL THEM DISASTERS!

    The fault does not lie with any goverment or agency in my mind. The fault, instead, lies with the hyperventilating news media that did not have the sense nor the discretion to understand that you can't move massive amounts of troops, equipment and supplies overnight. I also believe that you will find that the reports of lawlessness, rapes, and deaths will have been as overestimated as Mayor Nagin's estimate of 10,000 deaths.

    I am sorry that many people were harmed, and my own heart is heavy because I lved in New Orleans for 3 years myself. We all knew it was a matter of time that the "bowl" that is New Orleans would some day be filled. Well that day has come and we all need to grow up and realize that many events are simply out of our control.

    Asking "who shot john?" isn't fruitful . . . I only wish that all of us would come to that same conclusion.

    Every blessing,

    LD
     
  8. ballfan

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    Well, if it came from Limbaugh, it ust be accurate then. Hindsight is 20/20. The "flooded schoolbus" issue wasn't an issue until after the fact. Have we forgotten that the problem with N.O was not Katrina, but the broken levees? No one reasonably forsaw it happenning at this time. We need to stop playing the blamegame. All it does is reveal our sinful nature. </font>[/QUOTE]While watching the news when they were taking people to the Superdome BEFORE the hurricane hit, I was thinking it was a bad idea to take them there. The school buses weren't flooded then and they may have became an issue after the leevee's failed but the mistake was made before the hurricane when the use of buses in evacuation as mandated in their plans was ignored.

    The pictures show the results of poor performance in NO and doing it right in Galveston.
     
  9. billwald

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    What has AMTRAK been doing?
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Well, if it came from Limbaugh, it ust be accurate then. Hindsight is 20/20. The "flooded schoolbus" issue wasn't an issue until after the fact. Have we forgotten that the problem with N.O was not Katrina, but the broken levees? No one reasonably forsaw it happenning at this time. We need to stop playing the blamegame. All it does is reveal our sinful nature. </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry John,

    But it simply isn't true. Everyone knew the levees wouldn't hold a big hurricane like Katrina and they did nothing about it. If they didn't know, then they are incomptent idiots and have no business holding office.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. TexasSky

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    Amtrak doesn't go through most (if any) of Texas.

    I have to agree with Joseph about the levees, ~I~ knew the levees could break days before they did, and I learned it from national television. Wouldn't it make sense that the people charged with the care of the city and state would know?
     
  12. StraightAndNarrow

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    FEMA won't accept Amtrak's help in evacuations
    http://news.ft.com/cms/s/84aa35cc-1da8-11da-b40b-00000e..

    FEMA turns away experienced firefighters
    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/105538/7048

    FEMA turns back Wal-Mart supply trucks
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspec..

    FEMA prevents Coast Guard from delivering diesel fuel
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspec..

    FEMA won't let Red Cross deliver food
    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

    FEMA bars morticians from entering New Orleans
    http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15147862&BRD=...

    FEMA blocks 500-boat citizen flotilla from delivering aid
    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/3/171718/0826

    FEMA fails to utilize Navy ship with 600-bed hospital on board
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509..

    FEMA to Chicago: Send just one truck
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902dale..

    FEMA turns away generators
    http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

    FEMA: "First Responders Urged Not To Respond"
    http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470


    According to a story just posted by the Washington Post, the chief of the National Guard, Lt. Gen Steven Blum, said that part of the reason for the slow response to Katrina was because much of the Louisiana and Mississippi National Guard, and their equipment, were in Iraq:

    The deployment of thousands of National Guard troops from Mississippi and Louisiana in Iraq when Hurricane Katrina struck hindered those states' initial storm response, military and civilian officials said Friday.

    Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau, said that "arguably" a day or so of response time was lost due to the absence of the Mississippi National Guard's 155th Infantry Brigade and Louisiana's 256th Infantry Brigade, each with thousands of troops in Iraq.

    For days after the disaster, help and volunteers of all sorts headed for New Orleans with relief supplies and expertise, only to be stopped and turned away by FEMA.

    Last night, one of my friends joined our regular Sunday chat. He had just come home from New Orleans with his group of volunteer firefighters from Houston, after they had waited outside New Orleans since Tuesday for FEMA to let them help in New Orleans, or use them somewhere else in the stricken region.

    FEMA's "reason" -- they wouldn't let anyone in "until the National Guard has secured the city."


    Bush didn't know the Hurricane damage was bad until THURSDAY AFTER IT STRUCK

    The reality, say several aides who did not wish to be quoted because it might displease the president, did not really sink in until Thursday night. Some White House staffers were watching the evening news and thought the president needed to see the horrific reports coming out of New Orleans. Counselor Bartlett made up a DVD of the newscasts so Bush could see them in their entirety as he flew down to the Gulf Coast the next morning on Air Force One.

    So Bush didn't realize how bad the storm damage was until Thursday night, almost the fifth day AFTER the storm hit. Good God. He was going to watch the weekly news Friday for the FIRST TIME to get a sense of how bad things were.

    No one wanted to tell Bush the truth
    When Hurricane Katrina struck, it appears there was no one to tell President Bush the plain truth: that the state and local governments had been overwhelmed, that the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) was not up to the job and that the military, the only institution with the resources to cope, couldn't act without a declaration from the president overriding all other authority.

    "Bush created a disaster within a disaster."
    A NEWSWEEK reconstruction of the government's response to the storm shows how Bush's leadership style and the bureaucratic culture combined to produce a disaster within a disaster.

    After five years in office, he is surrounded largely by people who agree with him. Bush can ask tough questions, but it's mostly a one-way street. Most presidents keep a devil's advocate around.

    Lyndon Johnson had George Ball on Vietnam; President Ronald Reagan and Bush's father, George H.W. Bush, grudgingly listened to the arguments of Budget Director Richard Darman, who told them what they didn't wish to hear: that they would have to raise taxes. When Hurricane Katrina struck, it appears there was no one to tell President Bush the plain truth: that the state and local governments had been overwhelmed, that the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) was not up to the job and that the military, the only institution with the resources to cope, couldn't act without a declaration from the president overriding all other authority.

    One thing Bush did do right.

    Firms with Bush ties snag Katrina deals
    White House connections attract renewed attention from watchdog groups
    Reuters
    Updated: 4:04 p.m. ET Sept. 10, 2005

    Companies with ties to the Bush White House and the former head of FEMA are clinching some of the administration's first disaster relief and reconstruction contracts in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

    At least two major corporate clients of lobbyist Joe Allbaugh, President George W. Bush's former campaign manager and a former head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, have already been tapped to start recovery work along the battered Gulf Coast.

    One is Shaw Group Inc. and the other is Halliburton Co. subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root. Vice President Dick Cheney is a former head of Halliburton.

    Bechtel National Inc., a unit of San Francisco-based Bechtel Corp., has also been selected by FEMA to provide short-term housing for people displaced by the hurricane. Bush named Bechtel's CEO to his Export Council and put the former CEO of Bechtel Energy in charge of the Overseas Private Investment Corporation.
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Is this story posted on their online edition? Is there a link. There was certainly plenty of blame to go around for the slow response, but it wasn't because of Iraq.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I just looked on the WP website and find no such story posted. Perhaps, you might provide a link to us.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  15. ballfan

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    Here's the real story from one of the posted links. This is more than just the slightly dishonest shortened version of the headline.

    It looks like coordination was requested with the locals actually in charge. The locals apparently fell down on the job. Who knew in advance that would happen?
     

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