Utter control

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by SaggyWoman, Sep 25, 2002.

  1. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
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    Don't get me wrong. I am not an advocate for women being the senior pastor of any church.

    But, I do not understand how a woman can "take control" of a church as a pastor. Most churches vote to put pastors in, thus the church approving her leadership. I do not understand how this giving of leadership would be any form of usurping authority.
     
  2. blackbird

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    Saggywoman,
    Politics! Women know how to do it as well as the men!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  3. Daniel David

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    Saggywoman, 1 Timothy 2 gives 2 restrictions, not just one.

    First, she cannot teach men.

    Second, she cannot exercise authority. "Usurp" is an unfortunate translation.

    People are always trying to get around this issue by saying that a woman can teach a man (men) as long as she is under authority. This is false thinking though.

    Paul is very specific.

    Also, who gives the church the authority to contradict the Word of God.

    Out like the status of Reverend for Jesse Jackson (and others).
     
  4. Jonathan

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    I'm not sure why this is such a big issue. In my experience, most of the churches who have deacon boards that assume ultimate administrative control...are essentially controlled by manipulative deacon's wives. [​IMG]
     
  5. SaggyWoman

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    "deacon Board" is of conflict to a degree, since the root word for deacon means servant. How can a servant administrate?
     
  6. preacher

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    Miss Saggy...
    It's God that gives the authority. It's also God that puts a particular man in a particular church.
    We seem to forget that sometimes. If a man is pastor in a church & God didn't put him there ...then he's in the wrong church. Same with the church itself...if they vote in a pastor without prayerfully seeking to see if it's God's man, then they messed up.
    "Voting in" isn't a biblical act that I can see.
    God is the only authority. He says who goes where & when. ;)
     
  7. Jonathan

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    This is of interest to me (I'm currently on a pastoral search committee). I recognize that there is not a single biblical text that prescribes a congregation "voting in" a pastor. Since Scripture is silent on the issue, how would you prescribe we seek and intall a pastor?
     
  8. AVL1984

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    Saggy!!!! How are you???? Now to the question...Jesus took on himself the form of a servant, and came to serve. Did HE administrate while he was a servant?

    AJL
     
  9. AVL1984

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    Saggy...You've asked this in another chatroom we were in....ARE YOU STILL TRYING TO START YOUR OWN CHURCH OR RELIGION??? LOL [​IMG] Just thought I'd inject some humor into your life! [​IMG]

    AJL
     
  10. SaggyWoman

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    Hey, Tony. LOL. No. No new start here!!! God forbid! LOL.
     
  11. Abiyah

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  12. Johnv

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    Ultimately, there's a man in control of the pulpit. The pastor answers to the board and to Jesus, the board answers to the denomination and to Jesus, the denomination answers to its members and to Jesus. Any way you slice it, Jesus is in control, and when I last checked, he was a man. Who what does it matter the genitals behind the pulpit? No matter if your pastor is male or female, if that person has Jesus in their heart, they're speaking with male authority.

    It seems that female pastors seem to do well in that authority. I think the bigger issue is when our male pastors don't take that same authority, because they falsely think they already have it by virtue of their genitals..
     
  13. preacher

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    Mornin'!
    Johnv: You cite part of the problem yourself...
    "The pastor answers to the board and to Jesus, the board answers to the denomination and to Jesus, the denomination answers to its members and to Jesus."
    Jesus is second...kinda' seems out of order to me.
    As far as a woman being a Pastor, even if you can work around the "husband of one wife" it says further in 1Tim. "One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all
    gravity;
    (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
    We know the husband is the head of the wife, so how could she "rule" the house?
    As far as how to know you have the right man for the office...same as I told someone else about knowing if they're in the right church. Prayer...& more Prayer. May seem simple but it works. Paul taught over & over about the church being of one mind & one accord, one heart...
    And Jesus said Seek, Ask, & Knock. So I would think the church & the possible Pastor should do just that..as one. [​IMG]
     
  14. SaggyWoman

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    The sad thing about it, preacher, is

    1.) There are many pastors who don't rule their family well.

    2.) There are single pastors.

    A woman can be in charge and be very submissive.
     
  15. preacher

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    Mornin Saggy:
    You are right about one thing...there are "pastors" that don't or can't rule their own house well. And if it is an unchanging constant then they would be disqualified from continuing in that office.
    As far as single pastors, I've wondered sometimes myself, but the word doesn't say he must be married, just the husband of one wife. As far as ruling his house, it does say house..(as in household?) not Home
    Your last statement, well again I state the Word
    teaches that the MAN is the HEAD of the woman, as Christ is the Head of the Church.
    A woman is in charge...of the children if they are so blessed, and in a sense she is in charge of the HOME because herself & the husband are supposed to be ONE. But even so we as part of the bride & thus being One with Christ...HE is still the head, & it's the same for us. There has to be one in authority, & God ordained that person to be the man, inthe house, in the home & in the Church.
     
  16. SaggyWoman

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    And so where does the Proverbs 31 woman fit into all this?

    If you go to that "clarity" about being the husband of one wife but not necessarily "have" to, then why not go that direction with a woman. It just doesn't bear out.
     
  17. preacher

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    I don't get where you're aiming with Prov.
    It describes a virtuous woman. A wife that honors God...& her husband. How do you get woman preacher out of that. Not tryin' to be "smart"
    but I DO NOT see it. Every verse ties her in with her husband & her work at & for the home. [​IMG]
     
  18. Bro. Curtis

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  19. Bro. Curtis

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    Then they shouldn't be pastors. You can't justify disobediance just because somebody else is.
     
  20. SaggyWoman

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    The Proverbs 31 woman is the woman in charge of her world.
     

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