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Verifying quotes

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by BrianT, Jan 14, 2003.

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  1. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    In the KJV-O debate, there are often quotes put forward. In my experience, many times these quotes are taken out of context or otherwise massaged to change the original intended meaning. I thought it would be educational and beneficial if we pooled our resources, listing books we own or have access to, that would help in the verification of such quotes. I will provide the titles of some books I own that are relevant to the debate, and I encourage other people to list their titles. That way, when someone puts forth a quote from someone they are trying to portray in a certain light (good or bad), or if someone just is interested in the proof or disproof of a particular quote, we can see if anyone here has the original source for verification as a group.

    I can verify quotes from the following books:

    By Westcott and/or Hort:
    - "The Bible in the Church", Westcott, 4th edition, 1875.
    - "The Gospel of the Resurrection", Westcott, 7th ed., 1891
    - "The Historic Faith", Westcott, 4th ed., 1890
    - "Introduction to the Study of the Gospels", Westcott, 7th ed., 1888
    - "Words of Faith and Hope", Westcott, 1902
    - "On the Canon of the New Testament", Westcott, 3rd ed., 1870
    - "The Gospel of Life", Westcott, 2nd ed., 1895
    - "The Epistles of St. John", Westcott, 3rd ed., 1892
    - "The Gospel According to St. John", Westcott, 1971 reprint of the 1881 edition
    - "Judiastic Christianity", Hort, 1898
    - "Sermons on the Books of the Bible", Hort, 1913 edition
    - "Introduction to the New Testament in the Original Greek", 1988 reprint of the 1882 printing

    Burgon:
    - "The Revision Revised", Burgon, recent Dean Burgon Society reprint of the 1883 edition
    - "Causes of Corruption of the New Testament Text", Burgon, 1998 reprint

    Ruckman:
    - "The NIV - An 'In-Depth' Documentation of Apostasy", Ruckman, 1998 reprint of 1990
    - "Satan's Materpiece! The New ASV", Ruckman, 1972
    - "About the New King James Version", Ruckman, 1983
    - "A Survey of the Authorized Version", Ruckman, 1997 reprint of 1978
    - "The Monarch of Books", Ruckman, 2002 reprint of 1980, 1973
    - "Differences in the King James Version Editions", Ruckman, 1999 reprint of 1994, 1983
    - "The Mark of the Beast", Ruckman, 2000, 7th printing of 1960

    Misc:
    - "New Age Bible Versions", Riplinger, electronic version
    - "The NIV: The Making of a Contemporary Translation", Barker (editor), 1986
    - "The King James Only Controversy", White, 1995
    - "Which Bible", Fuller (editor), 2nd ed., 1971
    - "Sabotage?" full-size comic book, Chick, 1979
    - "The Attack" small tract, Chick, 1985
    - "New Eye Opener" tract, J.J. Ray, 1980
    - "The Complete Guide to Bible Versions", Comfort, 1996
    - "A Critique of Gail Riplinger's Scholarship and KJV Onlyism", Corner, 1999
    - "A Defense of Biblical Infallibility", Pinnock, 1967
    - "The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts", Comfort and Barret, 2001
    - "How We Got Our Bible", Earle, 1971
    - "Heresies of Westcott & Hort", Waite, 1979

    I also have several dozen different Bible versions, and can look up quotes from the prefaces, marginal notes, etc.

    [ January 14, 2003, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: BrianT ]
     
    #1 BrianT, Jan 14, 2003
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Wow! I'm impressed!!
    All i have about Bible translations [​IMG]
    is a Jack Chick comic book: SABOTAGED! [​IMG]
     
    #2 Ed Edwards, Jan 14, 2003
  3. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Which Bible?, Fifth Edition, Fuller, 1975
    True or False?, Fuller, 1973
    God Only Wrote One Bible, Jasper James Ray, 1955
    Defending The King James Bible, D.A. Waite, 1992
    That Manuscript From Outer Space, H.L. Willmington, 1974
    New Age Bible Versions, G.A. Riplinger, 1993
    The Battle For The Bible, Harold Lindsell, 1976
    Things That Are Different Are Not The Same, Mickey P. Carter, 1993
    Final Authority, William P. Grady, 1993

    The following books are all authored by James H. Sightler:
    Silver Words and Pure, 2001
    Lively Oracles, 2002
    Westcott's New Bibles, 2001
    A Testimony Founded Forever, Second Edition, 1999

    [ January 14, 2003, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Bob 63 ]
     
    #3 Pastor_Bob, Jan 14, 2003
  4. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    What is the main theme of THAT book? :eek: [​IMG]
     
    #4 BrianT, Jan 14, 2003
  5. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I think the best thing one can do is take a look back at the original greek and hebrew, and look at wha tthe words meant than (as opposed to what they mean now).
     
    #5 Johnv, Jan 14, 2003
  6. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    What is the main theme of THAT book? :eek: [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]H.L. Willmington, as you may know, is the author of Willmington’s Guide To The Bible , and was long-time Dean at Lynchburg Baptist College (Now Liberty University). This book is basically written to tell how the Bible came to us today. Of course you realize that owning a book is not necessarily endorsing a book. That is the case with this book.

    To give you an idea of the content of this book, I will list the contents by chapter:
    1. How the Bible Came Into Being
    2. How History Has Viewed the Bible
    3. What Great Personalities Have Said About the Bible
    4. Symbols for the Bible
    5. The Supreme Authority of the Bible
    6. How the Sixty-six Books of the Bible Were Collected
    7. Important Historical Translations of the Bible
    8. Proofs that the Bible is the Word of God
     
    #6 Pastor_Bob, Jan 14, 2003
  7. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Why is "Outer Space" in the title?
     
    #7 BrianT, Jan 14, 2003
  8. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Brian, this quote comes from a book that you have not listed. If you cannot verify it, we will leave it at that but, it is a very disturbing quote from my perspective. The quote comes from Peterbourough Sermons, B.F. Westcott, 1904, p.17 and it appears as though he is denying the literal future second coming.

     
    #8 Pastor_Bob, Jan 14, 2003
  9. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Pastor Bob, I don't have a way of investigating that quote at the moment, but I'll probably end up buying that book sooner or later. As it is, I do have several quotes I can provide where he *affirms* the literal second coming, if you are interested.
     
    #9 BrianT, Jan 14, 2003
  10. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    You can do that if you like Brian. Of course then I would be unable to verify those quotes in their context either. I'll see if I can find something in a book that you have access to.

    Are their any books by Westcott or Hort available to view online?
     
    #10 Pastor_Bob, Jan 15, 2003
  11. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    If I post some, I'll post enough of the surrounding context as well.

    Unfortunately, no. But I am working on that - that is one of the reasons I have been collecting the books. [​IMG] But talk about a tedious process. [​IMG]
     
    #11 BrianT, Jan 15, 2003
  12. TheAce

    TheAce Guest

    You guys are whistling into the wind. It's not a case of someone tampering with the text. It's just a case of sloppy copying. The modern versions are based on sloppy mss that were cast aside and not used until some whiz kids decided they might be the best after all. But based on what...?
     
    #12 TheAce, Jan 18, 2003
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