Verses support evolution?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Sopranette, Oct 31, 2007.

  1. Sopranette

    Sopranette
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    Do these verses support evolution? According to the theory of evolution, life began in Earth's oceans, developing over millions of yearsuntil the creatures could live on land and not in the water anymore. These verses also seems to say life did begin in the oceans, and moved up onto dry land from there.

    Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
    1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  2. Ulsterman

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    Where does it say that? There is no indication that sea life moved up onto dry land, unless you impose the evolutionary model upon the Scripture. In any case, even if they did, (which I am sure they didn't), it would have had to have happened in one day. Unless, of course you are a theistic evolutionist and not a creationist.
     
  3. Sopranette

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    Unless I'm readin it wrong, when the waters brought forth all the living creatures, that seems to say to me all animal life began in the oceans. I do agree it would have happened in one day, and not over millions of years.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  4. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    The key part of the scripture that to me disproves evolution is the phrase “after his kind.” This phrase appears several times in the creation story referring to plants and animals.

    Does evolution take place on a small scale within a species? Of course it does. We can selectively breed cows to get more beef or more milk. We can cross pollinate green beans and eliminate the strings. We can make cauliflower and tangelos. We can get new breeds of dogs and cats and even develop hybrid bass.

    What we cannot do and have never been able to do however is to change anything, plant or animal into a different creature. Now the evolutionist will say that it just takes so long that we cannot see that happen. I say that it is because God created the world and every plant and animal in it to reproduce only “after its kind.”
     
  5. Gold Dragon

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    As a theistic evolutionist, I would not say these verses necessarily support evolution but I do think the parallel is an interesting one to ponder. I think it is possible that the Creation narrative was God's way of communicating a process similar to evolution in a way that the people of biblical times would understand. But it may not be.

    I also think it is interesting to ponder the parallel between the Big Bang Theory and God speaking creation into existence. The Big Bang Theory, or "hypothesis of the primeval atom" as he called it, was first proposed by Georges Lemaitre, a Christian (Catholic) priest who described it as a "creation-like" event. One reason the scientists of his day were initially skeptical was because it sounded too much like the creation described in the Bible. But since then, there have been many significant scientific discoveries that have supported the expanding universe theory such that it is now the prevailing theory in the scientific community. While they often attribute it to "randomness", I attribute it to God. By faith I believe that God is the source of all things random and no scientist can ever disprove that.
     
    #5 Gold Dragon, Oct 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2007
  6. Ulsterman

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    If this was the case, then we would have to have land animals emerging from the soil on the sixth day, "And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so."
     
  7. Sopranette

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    So are the "living creatures that moveth" in verses 20 and 21 only animals that live in the water and in the air, and in verse 24 animals that live on land?

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  8. preachinjesus

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    the Bible isn't a science book...it does have something to say about how everything got started, but that's cosmology and not science.

    Of course I don't have a problem with certain micro-evolutionary claims, so long as we agree that a) God created everything from nothing, and b) man is not evolved but rather we exist as created.

    I don't go to the Bible to prove anything beyond those two points, that isn't the Bible's purview.
     
  9. Ulsterman

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    I believe so.
     
  10. David Lamb

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    As I read it, when Genesis 1.21 talks of "every living creature that moveth" it qualifies that by the phrase, "which the waters brought forth abundantly." It is not saying that life began in the sea. After all, Genesis 1.11-12 have already told us:
    11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


    So there was already land-based plant life before God created sea creatures. Besides, verses 24-24, which tell us about the creation of land animals, say that God made them; He didn't just cause them to crawl out of the sea and change their fins into legs:


    24 ¶ Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind"; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."


    Apart from all that, evolutionary theory holds that whales had land animal ancestry.


    Genesis 1 tells us that God created life on land, in the sea and in the air, not that he created life in the sea, left it a few million years, and caused some of it to becaome adapted to life on the land.
     
  11. Sopranette

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    Okay, but I never said I thought God left His creations to develope over millions of years. All creation would have happened within one week, or exactly six days. I'm trying to picture how birds were created in the waters, but still could fly. What a sight that would be!

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  12. David Lamb

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    No of course you didn't, Sopranette, and I wasn't accusing you of doing so. I do apologise if you thought that I was. But you did ask in the OP if the verses supported the theory of evolution, and you even mentioned millions of years. I think I have found a possible cause of the confusion in your mind with the idea of birds being created in the sea, yet being able to fly. In the KJV, Genesis 1.20-22 reads:

    20 ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

    That could be read as though the birds came out of the sea. However, the NKJV has:

    20 ¶ Then God said, "Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."

    And it is not just the modern versions that seem clearer; the Geneva bible of 1599 has for verse 20:

    Afterward God said, Let the waters bring foorth in abundance euery creeping thing that hath life: and let the foule flie vpon the earth in the open firmament of the heauen.

    Perhaps someone with a knowledge of Hebrew could tell us whether the original words meant that the birds came out of the sea.



     
  13. preachinjesus

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    I'll toss this out...what if Adam and Eve lived in a state of perfection for thousands of years and much of what was happening outside the Garden of Eden was constantly in the midst of change and transition. The Garden was stability for them and they were created...literally as people...thousands of years before the Fall.

    Just look at the changes to our world between the 1500s and now...humans are taller and different, numerous species are changed, etc.

    Additionally consider what would happen to our world if, at the Flood, water sat upon the face of the land for almost a year. Think about the amount of change that happens when the land your house is sitting on is under 10,000 ton/sq meter? That is massive change. Maybe I'm just preaching to the choir...:)
     
  14. Sopranette

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    My 2 cents? Humans are taller, healthier in general, because of advances in medicine and nutrition. Different languages and races started with the tower of Babel. Animals changing because the Earth is changing, so they must adapt.

    love,

    Sopranette
     

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