versions of the bible

I don't doubt GOd, just the false doctrine of single-translationism.

Which has nothing to do with the issue of translations.

That would be the Geneva bible.

All the love of Jesus Christ does not make the false doctrine of single-translationism acceptible.

 

Look Michelle you have said we have to accept the KJV as God's Word by faith. Fine I accept the ISV of the Holy Bible as God's Word by faith. I am on the same ground as you are. With the same proof. All this about adding and subtracting you are comparing MV's against the KJV which is stupid. The Greek text and mss are what is God's true Words not the KJV.

 

Originally posted by michelle:

He had them recorded in Hebrew and Aramaic language in the OT and Greek in the NT.

Could you show me somehow where God inspired the text in English? Remember English did not exist until much later.

 

God.

 

Michelle:

Could you point me to one verse that even remotely indiactes that the KJV is inspired. Because I am unable to find any text that supports that idea. All of the text I know preceded the canon and the KJV followed the canon.

 

Michelle, I am unable to find any jots and tittles in English. If so what are they?

 

Are the KJV and the ISV the same? If not, how would you say, "by faith" if they disagree each other? Is that nonsense?

Simply, you ignore the factual evidence that shows MVs affect any doctrines.

Read Greek? Your first native language? The Greek MSS were the Word of God. The KJV is God given Book for English-speaking people including YOU, me, Michelle, and others. The KJV is the Today Book that God gives you. Therefore the KJV is the Word of God.

 

Using the phrase "to me" rather than depending on proven empirical evidence, is evidence of post-modern thinking.

Post-modernity says "don't bother me with absolute truth or fact". What I believe is all that matters.

In an odd juxtaposition, many KJVonly sect who claim fidelity to 1611 words are actually caught in the vicious lies of post-modern thought. </font>[/QUOTE]Isn't this the whole premise for much of the New Age movement? To find God through various channels?

I guess Michelle believes in more than one channel but only one at a time.

 

It is you that doubt God. He has given scripture and scriptural principles by which to evaluate the evidence but you insist that He must have done it your way or no way.

How about the many more generations that existed before your KJV 1769/1762 revision was made? They didn't have "the very words of God" by your reasoning since they didn't have the exact Bible you have.

The KJV did not exist since the beginning of time. The KJV didn't even exist since the beginning of the church or even the beginning of English or the beginning of Baptists.

Nope. You won't find God's words in any English Bible. He didn't inspire the Bible in English but rather in languages and by specific men that He divinely chose.

 

Please cite the portions of those passages that say the KJV is God's words.

The label has a meaning that all of us here know well. Your attempts to hide behind semantics is futile. You believe that the KJV is literally God's very words and therefore that all other English Bibles are false. That is by definition KJVO.

The label means what you yourself declare that you believe.

 

That may be true for you, but the "Today Book" that God has given me is the NIV. Therefore, the NIV is the Word of God.

 

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All this about adding and subtracting you are comparing MV's against the KJV which is stupid. The Greek text and mss are what is God's true Words not the KJV.
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Adding and subtracting from the words of God may be or seem "stupid" to you, but the Lord our God has said otherwise. We do not speak Greek or Hebrew, we speak ENGLISH. God has provided HIS pure words for us in our own language. I praise and thank our Lord for this! It is very sad you deny and reject this wonderful truth.

Psalms 19

1. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5. Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
7. The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
8. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
10. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12. Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13. Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14. Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle
"This only goes to prove my contentions that the apostacy is not only largely evident in the States, but that it has wormed it's way in other parts of the world."
""
Is the notion of people translating the Bible into Dutch abhorrent to you?

"This is very Ecumenical move and very dangerous and unwise"
''
How so? I understand that it is an ecumenical move, but what makes it very dangerous and unwise? The translation may turn out to be lousy, but that only makes it a waste of time and money.

"and also disobeying God and his commands."
"
And yes I would like prooftexts and an explanation of those prooftexts for this one.


"A little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump of dough."
''
What? Are you suggesting those evil Jews are spoiling the translation of the OT with their very presence?

"Has this been decided with the special calling of God (in his will)?, or is this by the will of man?"
''
I wasn't physically present when this was decided, but apparently extensive prayersessions were held over this.

 

That may be true for you, but the "Today Book" that God has given me is the NIV. Therefore, the NIV is the Word of God. </font>[/QUOTE]The NIV **contains** the word of God because of 6,500 non-inspired, not preserved words in the NIV. How would you say the NIV is the word of God during 6,500 words in the NIV are not the word of God?

 

C4K said:

There is NO merit to michelle's rantings. Either agree with her or you call Jesus a liar?!?

I'll take my chances.

Who does that sound like she is equating herself to?

Does he wear a funny white hat?

 

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How so? I understand that it is an ecumenical move, but what makes it very dangerous and unwise? The translation may turn out to be lousy, but that only makes it a waste of time and money.
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Matthew 16

1. The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2. He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3. And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4. A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
5. And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.
6. Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
7. And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.
8. Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
9. Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
10. Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
11. How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
12. Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Galatians 5

1. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
8. This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
9. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
10. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
11. And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Galatians 1

1. Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
2. And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3. Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4. Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5. To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 6

1. We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2. (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
3. Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4. But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5. In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6. By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
7. By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8. By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9. As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10. As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
11. O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
12. Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13. Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
14. Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15. And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16. And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


How can that translation effort be by the will of God? And if it isn't, then who's? This is why it is dangerous and unwise.

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

You are absolutely right, Michelle. God has provided HIS pure words for us in our own language.

In fact, He has done so several differetn times, in several different translations, of which the King James is but one.

So do I, so do I.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

No one is denying the existance of the word of God, Michelle. We just choose not to try to tell God that He could only give them to the English speaking world but once.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Yes, Michelle. Please tell us why the King James Version translators chose to "add" and "subtract" from the very words of God?

Why is it so impossible for you to see and realize that the KJV is not God incarnate? It is a translation of a compiled manuscript, a manscript that didn't even use the vast majority of the texts available, and before the greater majority were even discovered.

The King James Version is not perfect. The King James Version is not infallible. The King James Version is but a product of sinful man, just like any other bible translation.

So, do we haev the word of God? Absolutely, in every faithful translation.

So get off of your holy hobbyhorse. The KJV is no better than the NIV or the NASB. It, like them, is but a TRANSLATION!!!!!

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Askjo:The NIV **contains** the word of God because of 6,500 non-inspired, not preserved words in the NIV. How would you say the NIV is the word of God during 6,500 words in the NIV are not the word of God?[/i]

Because your premise is completely unproved, and unprovable. Your proof consists of, "It aint the KJV".