Video:Ford's most advanced assembly plant operates in rural Brazil

True, but it should take more than workers are being paid in Brazil. Surely you don't expect workers in the U.S. to live on what third-world workers get paid, do you?

 

Very well thank you... :thumbs:

When do I get paid?

 

I think the point is that the UAW has not only outlived it's usefulness, but is now an enormous liability, which must be dissolved for the industry to survive.

 

Here's an old article I found telling the average wages for the Ford Plants in Russia and Brazil to give an idea....

http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=2&story_id=15691

And interestingly, they've had strikes or threats of striking workers just like in the old US of A....:laugh:

 

I would have to make some major adjustments in my lifestyle to live on $45.00 an hour. I would have to free up more time to spend the extra money I would be making. :laugh:

 

You get no argument out of me, I am very much in favor of organized labor but in this case, they too are just as guilty as management. I read somewhere that laid off workers get 96% of their base pay for 2 years. That defeats the purpose of th layoff, I'd make them work for those two years. Pensions that transfer to the surviving spouse, free medical, and did I mention pensions? I think the big 3 is ready for 401K's like the rest of working America.

 

I feel you pain, I wouldn't have to make a shopping list... :thumbs:

 

I am in 100% agreement with the above sentiment.

Instead, the UAW, with Obama and the rest of the democrats in Washington in their pockets, proudly proclaim "no concessions".

For this attitude taxpayers are expected to pay and democrats will see that we do.

Six months later the Big 3 will be back at the trough with no end in sight.

I say ...

Let 'em go bankrupt.

 

In my view, this is the recent problem with the Conservative party. Your comments explicitly point out the divide between the ultra conservatives and the moderates in your own party. It is not just Obama and the democrats that don't want to see the big 3 fall, there is a large group of moderate conservatives who fear the repercussions from the trickle down waves if the big 3 fail. Their failure would go much deeper than the big 3, UAW and their employee,s, it will impact suppliers, financiers and even owners of their products whose cars are still under warranty.

We all know the big 3 must change their business model in order to turn the industry in the right direction. They also have the Japanese plants in the south as a template for what works. You seem to ignore something, it was the Democrats who you criticize that told them to come back with a business plan before they ask for help. Will they get the help, probably. But they need to come up with a plan to turn off the faucet which might include a pre-packaged chapt 11 which could void the union agreement as well as executive contracts. I don't think anyone, not even the most liberal of liberals go without recognizing that a pre-packaged chapt 11 may be the solution.

However, like Obama said during the campaign, you appear to advocate a hatchet where a scalpel in the hands of a very skilled group of financial/business experts is really needed. There are too many jobs at stake not to mention seniors pensions, suppliers and their industries that will all go down if we're not careful. I applaud the Democrats in that they didn't propose a solution in the form of strings attached to the loan with regulation, salary caps etc... They sent the CEO's back to figure this out. I would think the right would recognize that and give credit where it's due.

Sorry to vent but I wanted to point out how the conservative party is so divided and why in my view they are bing voted out. There are a lot of realistic small/less government moderate conservatives who fear this do nothing and let them fold mentality as being far too extreme. I am one of those moderates who can say I won't be voting republican until the conservatives can get a realistic united platform and direction. And the ultra-conservatives haven't seem to figure out there is not enough of them alone to win a seat on the bus much like POTUS. They need us moderates just like the Liberals need us.

One last observation, I continually saw during the election as well as today, a right having nothing but continual criticism of the left but I never hear any proposed solutions from the right. Just criticism of the only ones trying and offering solutions. I think Rove's campaign of fear has run its course and America is now looking for solutions and not criticism. Like it or not, times are tough and the Liberals are the only ones suggesting a pathway out.

 

Baloney..................

 

If you far left libs want a different kind of discussion around here then you need to quit carrying the water for Pelosi and company. LB's last post is just an example of that very things.

Government is not the solution to everything under the sun. And quite frankly it appears there are some ignorant far left libs on this board who by up the lies of Pelosi and company only to be duped into giving them the poser they really want.

Kmart went under and now have come back stronger than ever. Companies go down all the time. The only reason they are getting any attention right now is because of the failure of yet another government program called Fannie Mae etc.

To quote Ronald Reagan:

"The scariest thing you could ever hear is I am from the government and I am here to help you".

You want to rely on people who scare you about cow farts and man made computer models that have no basis. They work to place animals on the endangered list who are far from distinction just to gain control over land and politics.

I assure you conservatives are not the least bit divided. However there are those liberal republicans that have seeped into the party. Moderates are a non-fictional character made up to avoid the liberal label. Once you cease to be conservative you are liberal. There is no neutral ground.

All this unconstitutional spending is liberal to the core. And liberals only look to the constitution when it it suits their lusts. That includes President Bush. The answer to the "Big 3" is to let the free market take care of them. Let them tread water for a while they will learn to swim on their own.

 

I think you made my case better than I could have dreamed of doing. You certainly made one thing clear, if one doesn't agree with your brand of conservativeness then their not conservative. That's what I call a divided party.

So I guess guys like McCain, your last presidential candidate isn't really conservative? He certainly didn't have the support of the far right and he and many conservative leaders like him are not as extreme.

My point was this and you made it well, there are not enough of you ultra-conservatives to get your elected. You need us moderates and you have told us you don't want us because we don't agree with being as extreme as you. To this I say ok, but do understand why you don't have my vote.

Also note, you offered no solutions, just criticism of my views...

 

You need to go back an reread my post. If you ever did to begin with. And looking to government for solutions is not moderate it is extreme, unconstitutional, and lazy.

 

Yes, Revmitchell's post typifies what is wrong with extreme conservatism in the U.S. today. Luckily, I think most thinking people have realized this and have voted so in the last election. I hope this type of divide and conquer politics is finally in decline in America.

 

Then you do not want to support Pelosi and company. You are welcome to compromise core issues if you like. Conservatives will stand strong. Obama won because we did not have a conservative ticket. Plain and simple. Democrat voting was up, Republican voting was down. It wasnt because fo to much conservatism. McCain compromised on almost every issue. It was a lack of conservatism that lost McCain the election.

 

Republican's turned out in force and voted against Obama. You recall that crowd, the ones who called him a Arab, Muslim and many other names? How about the ones who said they were scared to see Obama win? Oh they turned out in force or it wouldn't have been as close as it was.

Both the left and right need the moderates. Neither side can win on their own. Most moderates went left this go around. Now those are the facts.