View on regeneration

Well, a transition has been made, a contrast, if you will, from v.11, with the presence of de, but I'll have to agree with you that "He gave" is the focal point, even bracketed in the Greek text.

 

Agreed. Would this change your reading of faith preceding regeneration? Why or why not?

(Not trying to change your mind, I'm just curious--given your well-known theological persuasion).

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Well, the flow is still there, and so on.

More like a cause-effect going on: "all who received" ("those who believe"), "he gave..."

 

OK. I see. I disagree, but I see. Are there other verses you would reference to show faith preceding regeneration?

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

duplicate posting

 

Although we disagree on many things, we have more in common than we sometimes admit. I feel confident in saying we both have a wonderful, all-powerful Savior that does what He wants and has brought salvation to mankind although He was not under any obligation to do so. Only His love and graciousness for His creation is the reason He has been so benevolent.

I was thinking about the differences between the Calvinistic and the non-Calvinistic position last night while reflecting on our many postings here. I suspect that we are both wrong and both correct in many of our beliefs concerning this matter. I have come to the conclusion that this is a mystery that can only be resolved by having a complete understanding of God which we will never, at least in this lifetime, be able to do. I remembered something I heard a preacher say many years ago concerning this matter. He said, "I am simply going to let God be God and obey what I believe the Scriptures are saying."

I look forward to continuing these discussions, but let me say this. I apologize for some of the rash things I have said. Sometimes I allow my passions to get the best of me. I hope, in the future, to discuss these things in a more Christian manner. Let us work together to better see what the Word of God says so we may bring glory to His name and not be so intent on just proving our position correct. After all, the work of God in this world in not contingent on our being able to solve this complex mystery. And, if what we discuss is not based in love, we are not being obedient to His will regardless whether or not we are correct in our beliefs.

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." Joh 13:35

BTW, I am not KJVO, I regularly read and use several translations. It's just that since I used the KJV for so many years after being saved, it holds a special place in my heart, and I reverence it more than the others.

 

What difference would it make, you will disagree with any verse (and there are many) that shows faith precedes regeneration. You simply do not want to accept this.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

This question Paul asked certain disciples does not make sense unless faith precedes regeneration. If a person must have the Holy Ghost to believe, it would be absurd to ask if they had received the Spirit since they believed. I hardly believe Paul would be confused on this issue.

But you will find a way to explain this verse away, because you don't want to accept what the scriptures clearly show numerous times.

 

I'll wait until you guys brin up another text to interact with.

 

TCGreek, how about John 20:31? I believe this verse proves faith precedes regeneration.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

If a person must be regenerated before they can have spiritual life (which I agree), then this verse teaches that a person must believe to be regenerated.

How do you understand this verse?

 

Perhaps a clearer passage in this whole discussion might be John 5:24:

I propose that we define what is meant by regeneration.

 

Robert,

Thank you. I too apologize for rash things I've said as well. Passion can get the better of all of us and none of us are immune.

For what it's worth, even as a Calvinist, I still preach the Gospel and call for a decision to respond to Christ in repentance and faith. We don't have an "altar call," but I do put the Gospel in every single message.

I also argue that while I think one should believe as a Calvinist (because I'm convinced scripture shows that), I think one should conduct their ministry as an Arminian--as if it all depended on them.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Could you post any quotes from any Arminian sources, where they state that it "all depends on them"

 

No. It was a tongue-in-cheek statement.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Either way, it was a misrepresentation of other believers in Christ.

 

Whatever. Again, it was a tongue-in-cheek statement. Nothing more was meant.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Once the hydrogen bomb is dropped, think of the damage which it produces. It's sort of like that when we make false statements which misrepresent other individuals. Please be more careful in the future.

 

Hey, new guy; Archangel happens to be as polite, courteous, and orderly as any on this board. Everyone that knows him knew exactly where he was coming from when he made the statement that you're incessantly chiding him for. He meant well. Your scolding of him is uncalled for.

 

Please enlighten me as to how someone can post false unsupported statements about other Christian's and yet mean well?
I guess the Biblical command to "speak the truth" must no longer apply.


.

 

Methinks you may be a bit extreme in your judgment. Be careful, you’re only 19 posts into this. You’re flesh & blood just as the rest of us.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you. Mt 7:2

 

If I'm extreme by thinking that Christian's should speak the truth because that's what the Bible commands those who profess to be followers of Christ, then so be it. Nevertheless, you didn't explain to me how someone can make false statements about others and mean well by it.