Views on NT tithing?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JerryL, Jan 6, 2007.

  1. JerryL

    JerryL
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    I'm sorry if this has been hashed and rehashed but I can't seem to find any discussions of the topic in the search. What is everyones view of tithing for NT Christians? Not looking for a debate, I know how I believe, just looking at other peopls opinions.

    Jerry
     
  2. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    Jerry

    Tithing is part of the Old Testament law. I don't think you will find much about it either.

    God bless

    Wayne
     
  3. tinytim

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    I personally believe in it...
    I know the different viewpoints, but for me, I think that tithing is the system God wants me to use.

    I used to not tithe, and I felt so guilty...
    So we started. I was making $300/week, so I threw in $30 everyweek. Plus what I felt were worthy causes from the church.

    One week, we were strapped for cash, but never thought twice about writing that check.

    Then there was that one Saturday I will never forget.
    We had just gotten home from a long trip. We came into the house, unloaded the luggage from our car, and set down to rest. I remembered that i needed to check the mail, so I walked down to the mailbox.
    I opened up the mail and got the surprise of my life.
    I received a letter that we were going to receive a gift from a friend of $3000! And that we would get it the next week.

    Well, I ran to the house with the letter in hand.... I couldn't wait to tell my wife. I ran in the house, and was reaching her the letter, when she said, "here, take this first, and put it in your wallet." As she took the letter from my right hand, she put the check for our tithes to be thrown into the offering the next morning into my left hand....

    The amount she had written the check for was the $30.
    We received $3000 the next week...

    Talk about Grace! 100 times what our tithes was.
    Will this happen again? Probably not, but God meant it for a message for us...

    We cannot outgive God!

    So whether you tithe, or use some other system, always remember

    You cannot outgive God!!!
     
  4. AresMan

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    Tithing is a very specific and detailed command given by God to the nation of Israel. Tithing was for the theocratic nation of Israel a form of agricultural tax and welfare system.

    Tithing was an annual practice where landowners (those who actually had crops and livestock to give) would bring one tenth of the annual increase of their crops and livestock to Jerusalem (Deu 14:22-23). If they lived far away, to ease the burden they could sell their tithe, bring the money to Jerusalem, then buy their titheable commodity there (Deu 14:24-25).

    This annual tithe was a feast of celebration in which the nation would eat and remember the God Who provided for them. Tithers were to eat their own tithe and share it with those who had need: fathers, widows, and foreigners. Since Levites did not own property, tithers were to share with Levites also (Deu 14:26-27).

    At these annual tithe feasts, tithers actually had more liberty regarding dietary laws than at any other time of the year. They could eat clean and unclean animals. They could pretty much eat any kind of flesh they wanted as long as they did not eat the blood (Deu 14:26; Deu 12:15-16, 20-25).

    Every third year, tithers would lay their tithe outside their gates so that those with need could glean. Whether this was the same tithe used differently or another tithe given every three years is debatable. I tend to think it was the same tithe (Deu 14:28-29).


    Tithing is never taught in the New Testament except for Jesus' accusation of the scribes and Pharisees under the Law for being hypocrites. There is no indication anywhere in the Bible that tithing is a monetary 10% of one's net/gross/gross+benefits/etc. paycheck; nor is there any indication that tithing is commanded for anyone (i.e. the church) outside the nation of Israel. To attempt to redefine tithing, which is clearly and with great detail spelled out, as something that it is not is dishonesty to the Scripture and to those tricked into believing a lie (or ignorance).
     
  5. AresMan

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    I have no problem with anyone "tithing" by giving one tenth of net/gross salary to the church. It's a good thing. Just as long as you don't strongarm people into obeying a phantom law that is not Scriptural, but I'm sure you don't. :)

    In other words:
    Giving 10% of your salary to the church = good.
    Telling others that they must do the same to obey Scripture = bad.

    Praise God!

    Amen!
     
  6. JerryL

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    Pretty much my belief. Thanks for the views from both sides. I just know this is going to come up in the membership class of the Church I go to and wondered if anybody else had come up with the same idea I had. This gets to be a touchy subject sometimes with both sides so thanks for honest and heart felt answers.

    Jerry
     
  7. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    One Question that always seems to surface...

    :thumbs: AresMan....I'm with ya on everything you said in regards to this subject and I do believe that if folk would be honest about this matter and have proper regard not only to the context of the passages that teach tithing (for Israel)as well as the dispensations in which they are found and WHO the scriptures are addressing,then much false teaching about this could be put down and avoided. In short, tithing is for the nation of Israel to sustain the Levites and those less fortunate such as widows and the poor and liberal,generous GIVING out of a thankful heart towards the Lord is called for in the New Testament for the Church to sustain the widows,the poor and the sick and afflicted among us(the church)as well as taking care of the needs of those who serve in full-time ministry.
    As for the question I mentioned it is simply this. When talking about this to my preacher and others I know that INSIST that tithing is FOR the church,it seems that the subject of Abraham paying tithes to Melchizedek always comes up and they use the fact that Abraham did this PRIOR to the giving of the law. The argument is that in doing this Abraham set a precedent that we as his SEED should follow EVEN in the dispensation of grace/New Testament times. While I still beleive as you do,I have never had a good argument to refute that particular reasoning. What say ye?
    By the way, I've never heard (nor will I probably ever hear) the passages you quoted from Deut.12 & 14 preached or taught on in ANY Baptist church I've ever been in.
    Thanks, Greg Perry Sr.:saint:
     
  8. Brother Randall

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    Well if we don't tithe how are we going to keep the lights on in the church? Who's going to pay the pastors salary? Support the deployed missionaries?

    The OP asked about NT tithing. How about Mat 23:23? In this scripture I'd interpret that Jesus tithed.

    23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. (KJV)

    Since I started tithing my overall financial situation has improved over the past 3+ years.

    Bro R
     
  9. Pastor Larry

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    Offerings.

    The issue is not whether or not a Christian should give to the church. The NT makes it clear that we should. The question is whether or not it should be a tithe. I think most Christians get off way too easy with a tithe when they should be giving more. But they are so legalistic that they will give their ten percent, often right down to the penny.

    Check your lifestyle. Are you living the same lifestyle as an unbeliever who makes as much as you do? Why? And how?

    What did you do with your last raise? Were you living sufficiently on what you were making? Did your raise go to increase your lifestyle or your commitment ot God?
     
  10. HankD

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    2 Corinthians 9
    6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
    7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
    8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:​

    Someone said that Jesus tithed: Indeed He did and more, He gave 10 tithes for us.​


    HankD​
     
  11. Salty

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    If we tithe, we may not be giving enough! A tithe is an obligation (as in the law). We are not under the law but under grace!
    Lets look a 2 Corinthians 9:6-15. The key verse is vs 7 - So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not GRUDGINGLY, OR OF NECESSITY.But God loves a cheerful giver.

    So who will pay to keep the lights on? Our CHEERFULNESS!!!

    Lets Say you received an unexpected $10,000. The "tithe" would be $1000. Would we be robbing God?

    Salty

    ps, If you follow the OT law of tithing, do you also practice animal sacrifice? This is NOT a facetious question
     
  12. JerryL

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    I don't think Jesus tithed because 1: the poor didn't tithe. 2: only landowners and herdsman tithed, not tradesmen and fishermen.
    Like someone said giving 10% and even more for some people isn't a bad thing, but for some of the poorer 10% would destroy them.
     
    #12 JerryL, Jan 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2007
  13. annsni

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    Just a quick post but in our church, our pastor challenged everyone to commit to tithe for 6 months. He told them to make sure they either use offering envelopes or checks so that we can keep track of it. If, after 6 months, they find themselves in tighter finances, then to go to him and he will give you back all that you have tithed in the last 6 months. So many are afraid that they won't be able to do it but once they do, they see the blessing in it and continue it on. I thought that was pretty cool - and we had no one come to him after the 6 months were up. :D
     
  14. AresMan

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    1. This is a one-time recorded act of Abraham for a specific situation.
    2. The tithe was of the spoils of war; not of Abraham's own wealth.
    3. The tithe was to a Canaanite priest-king.
    4. Abraham gave the other 90% of the spoils to the king of Sodom.


    If this is an example for Christians to follow, then no Christian is following it. We need to go to war, conquer, give one tenth of the spoils to a priest-king, and the other nine tenths to an allied king (preferably the king of a nation of homosexuals).

    Now, Hebrews chapter 7 does create a link between what Abrahram did (as father of the nation of Israel) and what the Law required. However, this chapter also explicitly nullifies the tithe law (with Abraham's tithe clearly linked to it).

    So, Abraham's tithe, connected to the Law, is canceled by the Law. If it is not canceled, what gives one the right to redefine what Abraham did into something in a totally different context, such as giving a tenth of one's net/gross/gross+benefits/etc. salary to a church budget?

    The only other pre-Law "tithe" was Jacob's conditional promise to give God one tenth of what He gave him (Gen 28).

    1. This was a conditional promise.
    2. We have no record of Jacob fulfilling this promise (that doesn't mean that he didn't).
    3. There is still no indication that this serves as a precedent for anyone other than Jacob. There is no reference to this elsewhere in the Bible.
    4. I think there is a possibility that Jacob's vow was a prophetic reference to the nation of Israel and the Levitical priesthood.

    There are no "post-Law" references to tithing other than Jesus' accusations of the scribes and Pharisees under the Law. Note that they were tithing "mint, anise, and cumin." Still no reference anywhere in the Bible to tithing money.

    To recap:
    1. The pre-Law accounts of Abraham and Jacob give no indication of a general precedent for anyone else but them (or possibly the nation of Israel under the Law).
    2. The Law clearly defines the tithe: of what, when, for whom, how, etc. It is dishonesty to the Scripture to attempt to meddle with the definition given in Scripture.
     
  15. AresMan

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    Exactly. The poor didn't tithe; the poor received tithes. No one tithed if their product was not food and could not be used in burnt offerings by the priests (Deu 12:5-7; 14:22-26).
     
  16. AresMan

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    This is all well and good provided that he is not being dishonest to Scripture in putting forth an obligation from Scripture that doesn't exist.
     
  17. annsni

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    Nope - He said that it's up to each person to decide if they want to do it or not but to try it. This was called the Malachi Experement - after Malachi 3:10 which says "Bring the full tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need." So He said that God said to put Him to the test, so why not do it? I have to say that it's been totally true for us. :D God has provided for us in ways that we can't even begin to describe! How could we stay here in our home on such a small salary - less than 1/2 of what DH used to earn 5 years ago? I don't know, but we're making it from month to month - not always on paper but in reality we are. :D
     
  18. JerryL

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    This might put the people in a funny situation. If their finances are tighter, they might not come back and admit it though, they would have to admit God wasn't blessing their giving. This brings up an interesting point. At one time my wife and I did tithe down to the penny. We went through a tough time with work slowing down in the construction business, of which I work, and during that time we just about lost everything we had, including our house. That's when I began to wonder and start studying. Now I know that according to our situation sometimes less than 10% percent is acceptable and somtimes more. We are very blessed of God. We just practice good stewardship of our money and give what we can to Church and other needy Christian causes.

    Jerry
     
  19. annsni

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    I don't know - I'd be more than willing to get that cash back if we were struggling more than before but I also know that our church has done numerous financial seminars to help the congregation get out of debt and stay out of debt, so hopefully people are being good stewards of their money. I also know that a number of people worked their way out of debt by NOT living the great suburban life - and downscaling without being embarrassed. I really respect those who have done that and I see how much more at peace these people are!! It's good to be in a good church where we are all challenged with the Word and when we're not embarrassed when we fall or need help. :D
     
  20. JerryL

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    That's the key, live our lives for Jesus and not try to out do the "Jones".
     

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