Vitimization

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Filmproducer, Jan 15, 2007.

  1. Filmproducer

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    There has been an eye opening discussion taking place in the General Baptist forum concerning the mindset of Black Americans. I am starting a new thread because this topic is more political than Baptist in nature and I think it should be explored.

    Specifically I would like to discuss this quote:
    Do people really believe this to be true? Do people actually believe there is something inherently in black people to make them like this? This attitude is a far cry from what I have seen and experienced in the black community.
     
  2. Citizen

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    I think comments like that are short-sighted and uninformed at best, completely bigoted at worst.
     
  3. LeBuick

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    I guess it depends on what free means? Free to ride in the bac of the bus or to go to the backdoor to be served? Free to be the janitor and not the CEO? Free to not get the job or promotion because of the color of you skin? If you can that free, then I agree... Stop belly aching.
     
  4. DeeJay

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    I think that is an extream position that few have in the black community. I do however think that a milder version of that same position exists. There have been several incidents with law enforcement where a black individual was shoot or injured and the automatic asumption of the community is raceisem. Now I am not saying raceisem does not occure or that even some of those cases it was not involved. But the vast majority it is a false charge that plays on the position you have quoted.

    To see versions of that position just look for anything or anywhere Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpon support or speak. As long as the black community puts these two clowns up as their spokesman this "victim of the white man" mentality will continue to exist.

    If the black community needs or wants a spokesperson they should look to more level headed (less $$$ motivated) people like Bill Cosby who has make some stinging but true speaches in the last few years.
     
  5. Filmproducer

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    Okay, I agree. However, do you believe that the majority of black people live in this kind of victim mindset? Do you really feel as if the majority of black people "belly ache" and complain about being victims in most aspect of their lives? Say for example, a black person is discriminated against, (something that can be proven). Now if this person says something about their treatment are they living in this victimization mindset? Do they not have a right to air their grievances? I think anyone is hard pressed to prove that the majority of black people throw daily "pity parties" for themselves.
     
    #5 Filmproducer, Jan 15, 2007
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  6. Filmproducer

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    That's the thing, a lot of black people agree with Cosby, including the chairman of the NAACP. If you were to go back and look through some of the stuff after Cosby made his remarks you will find that people had a problem with how he brought it up, not that he was wrong.

    As for the police, there are some cases where it is justified, others where it is not. Some people do not understand just how much racial profiling can hurt somebody who is INNOCENT.
     
  7. DeeJay

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    Majority is A LOT of people. But if there are significant numbers say %20 that has a huge effect on how the whole community is viewed. If %20 of a community that large is vocal about those views then we are not talking about a fringe minortity.

    Thinking about your question. How many in the black community believe that the levies were intentionaly bombed in New Orliens to harm black neighborhoods. How many more believe that the Fed goverment was intentionally slow becasue of the number of black people affected. How many think the white man framed OJ Simpson.

    Probably not the majority %51. But certanly a huge number.
     
  8. LadyEagle

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    Moderator note: I am not happy about this topic being posted here because it can readily get out of hand in a jiffy. Please know that this thread will be closely scrutinized and if anything even close to violation of the posting rules is posted on this thread, it will be deleted and the thread closed without warning. A heads up will be going to the other moderators on this forum, too, FYI. Thank you.

    Lady Eagle,
    Moderator :flower:
     
    #8 LadyEagle, Jan 15, 2007
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  9. DeeJay

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    I do not doubt there are alot of black people who agree with Cosby. He speaks the truth. Thats my point Sharpton and Jackson should be dumped so more reasonable people like him can be heard.


    No doubt there are cases. And sometimes profiling is charged when it is not even being used. If you are patroling a community that is %90 black and you pullover %90 black people that is not profiling. But a lot of people will say it is.
     
  10. El_Guero

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    Most African Americans have NOT lived in the 'VICTIM' mindset since the 60's/

    However, the results of prejudice are not removed in a generation or two.

    My ancestors were indentured by the British, it definitely changed the way my entire family interacted with Americans around us. But, African Americans come from a racial/social group that was subjugated for much longer than a mere 7 years. Expecting one group of people to change much more quickly than the other group is setting one group up as a 'superior' race.

    I believe that both races are equal, and that it takes people generations to assimilate into 'general' population.

    The difference with this issue is that an African American often feels like he or she stands out in a crowd . . .

    IMHO that is.

     
  11. Filmproducer

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    That's the thing, though. People like Jesse Jackson are looked up to in the black community because they do things specifically for the black community. I do not agree with everything the guy says, but people cannot deny the help he and the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition have done for poor Americans. It is a shame that all the media does is focus on the racial comments he makes and not on any of the positive things he does.

    Now this is not to say that everything is fine in the community, however, any complaints would be from a socioeconomic stance rather than a racial stance, and I think that is where people get this idea that black people feel the victim. Many studies have been done in this area, it is a shame when small sound bites are heard on the news and race is blamed, when in reality it is a socioeconomic issue and African Americans, as well as others know and believe this.

    Have you ever heard of thousand churches connected? It is program started by Jackson under the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition. It is based on Martin Luther King's 4th movement of "equal opportunity and shared economic security". Now they are partnered with Freddie Mac, Citigroup, Intuit, Equifax, The New York Stock Exchange, and others. It is a curriculum and training program based on the 2,350 references to financial stewardship in the Bible. Here are the goals:

    1.debt elimination- based on Romans 3:8
    2.responsible credit management- based on Ps. 37:21
    3.home owner rather than renter- based on Pv. 19:14
    4.investment- based on Mt. 25:14-30
    5.asset protection- based on IIKings 20:1
    6.technology- Pv. 18:15

    Now this is just one of many programs of Jackson's, however they do not talk about this on the news, they instead show clips where he says race is involved in some way. The African Americans "keep" him in power because he helps the community. The 1000 churches connected is only one of many programs aimed at helping the poor and underrepresented, and it has nothing to do with playing the victim, but taking financial responsibility for yourself.

    On the flip side, why aren't other people touted as black leaders? Well, let me ask you this. What have they done in the black community or for it? Now Jackson has not run since, I believe, 1988. He has instead focused his efforts on helping the poor, as is seen through his programs and his staunch support of workers rights, universal health care, and the "New Market Initiative" (business investment in underrepresented communities). People support him, because he is there on the front lines and they see it. He is not only for African Americans, but for all the "poor".

    Now I am not claiming that the others do nothing for the community, however, their work is not visibly recognizable and politically debatable. In other words, while Condi Rice's job as Sec of State is commendable and her decisions and choices do affect America as a whole they do not do anything specifically for the African American community and, as with any political office, will be criticized and picked apart by the opposition.
     
    #11 Filmproducer, Jan 15, 2007
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  12. Filmproducer

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    Sure there are probably a few, but I don't even believe that many. Black people are like everyone else. There are all these conspiracy theories floating around sure the gullible will believe them, but the majority look at them like any other conspiracy theory. As for the levies I have not heard people, or seen any articles written, on them being bombed. Now for the government response I have heard and read many stories on the difference in response time had to do with socioeconomics, not race. Finally, there are a lot of black people who believe OJ is as guilty as sin.

    Where do you come up with the 20%? I think it is purely subjective, and just because a small minority believe conspiracy theory and the like does not mean it is a prevalent voice in the black community. Are white people who believe conspiracy theories a prevalent voice in the white community? The same can be said for the black community. Think of it as a smaller "white" community, in that it is just as diverse as the white population it is just smaller in total numbers.
     
  13. Filmproducer

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    I agree 100%. I think we need to be careful as a society in general in terms of profiling. By all means be vigilent about pointing out the injustices of actual profiling, but not to quick to jump to the conclusion that it is actually happen. Does that make sense? Anyway, I think you know what I mean.

    EG,

    I also agree with you. Black people may not have been slaves since the late 1800's, but they still underwnet an extensive period of time when dogs were treated better than they were in most cases. Our country did not even begin to heal racially before the late 1960's. The is a a lot of history that is still fresh in the minds of African Americans.
     
  14. DeeJay

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    Jackson may do a lot for the community but he is overall a bad spokesman giving the wrong impression of what (I believe) the black community wants to be seen as.

    To draw a compairison. Pat Robertson on the 700 club. I know he gives a lot of money to Samaritans Purse and dozens of other charities. When I flip by the TBN he is always raising money to "Send truck loads of food to (wherever)" But nobody here would say Pat Robertson is a positive spokesman for what Christianity is about.
     
  15. Filmproducer

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    Again, I agree. However, news agencies make money out of controvery. They love their Pat Robertsons and Jacksons because they are able to stir the post of discord very well, IMO.
     
  16. DeeJay

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    I just pulled %20 out as a number. I dont think it is a majority but is is not a fringe group. There are people that say that say and think anything. But when the number becomes significant people take notice.

    There are numerous groups saying the levies were brought down of purpose in a black neighborhood to save white neighborhoods. I listened to the leader of the New Black Panthers, Malik Zulu Shabazz
    make that statement right after the floods.

    Now I know the New Black Panthers dont speak for the black community as a whole but when they do speak they get noticed. And black leaders should have been jumping out of the wood work to condem the statements. We are talking about Public Relations dealing in perseption not reality here.

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/090905levees.htm

    It seems the above quote matches the one you started this thread with.

    http://rense.com/general67/exple.htm
     
    #16 DeeJay, Jan 15, 2007
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  17. Baptist in Richmond

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    Please be careful when going to the website listed above. one of the sites is affiliated with Alex Jones, and you will probably get you on the FBI watch list. I have seen him on C-SPAN and have heard him on that network that is named after a Book in the Bible. :laugh:

    Seriously, I always tease anyone who puts up a link to his sites, all in good fun! That is the first one I have seen in a while.

    Regards, hope all is well in your world,
    BiR
     
  18. Baptist in Richmond

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    Oops, sorry: double post.
     
  19. DeeJay

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    Filmproducer

    Since you brought up Condi I have question. Why is it that the Republican party and/or Bush administration has not been given more credit for the diversity in appointments to high level jobs? It seems that there has been a huge inprovement in diversity over even the last administration. Why is there no recognitionfor that?

    Alberto Gonzales, Condoleezza Rice, Margaret Spellings, Carlos Gutierrez, Elaine Chao, Mary E. Peters, Alphonso Jackson.

    Yet, it seems that charges of racism are still being leveled at Republicans. It seems that according to some vocal people in the black community to be Republican is the same as being racist. Do they not know the facts or are they being misleading to lead people who do not know the facts?
     
  20. Filmproducer

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    Yes, but is being noticed the same as being believed? There are radicals in any community. Why would the NBP be any different than the radicals in white or even Arab communities? Yes, you will the ones who will believe what they say, but I am not sure that that can be considered even a small minority. Even if every black person in NO believed this, which of course is highly unlikely, that is still relatively small considering the larger black population.
     

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