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Voter ID laws

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by mandym, Apr 17, 2012.

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  1. JeepDawg

    JeepDawg New Member

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    Exactly. Voting is far more important, and is a right of citizens. Can't prove you are a citizen? Sorry, you can't vote.

    How is that racist?
     
  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    One fraudulent ballot was cast. Was it a clerical error or deliberate misrepresentation?

    From the article:
    The Journal's analysis is the first to examine the potential for errors and fraud in New York's three-month-old database. It matched names, dates of birth and ZIP codes in the state's database of 11.7 million voter registration records against the same information in the Social Security Administration's "Death Master File," a database of 77 million records of deaths dating to 1937.

    The state database was current as of Oct. 4, the master death index through the second quarter of 2006.

    The same process has been used to identify deceased registrants in other states, but is not yet being used in New York.

    The numbers do not indicate how much fraud is the result of dead voters in New York, only the potential for it. Typically, records of votes by the dead are the result of bookkeeping errors and do not result in the casting of extra ballots. The Journal did not find any fraud in the local matches it investigated.

    http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/...9/NEWS01/610290381/1006/NEWS01&nclick_check=1

    Poll workers faking votes would not be stopped by photo ID requirements.


    You haven't shown deliberate fraud, except for the Tennessee incident which photo ID wouldn't have stopped. You've shown erroneous voter registrations but not votes. You've shown clerical errors. You've shown dead people 'voting' that was determined not to be fraud.

    Go for it. Show me where people registered via Motor Voter have fraudulently voted. Note: Not been registered to vote, but actually voted.
     
    #42 InTheLight, Apr 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2012
  3. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton New Member

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    ITL: I'm not disagreeing that photo ID would've prevented some of the things above.

    With that said, what is your ultimate problem with having to show a valid photo ID to vote?

    I don't see what's so hard about this.
     
  4. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I'm a conservative, I take it you are too. Don't we stand for less government intrusion into our lives, less regulations? Yet conservatives are proposing a new burdensome law meant to regulate a constitutional right. Whole new government agencies, with corresponding budgets will be created.

    There are people that don't have a photo ID. Many elderly people don't have a drivers license. Now they've got to arrange transportation to get to a government office somewhere to get their picture taken and prove that they've lived in the same house they've been in for probably 40 or 50 years. Just so they can exercise their constitutional right to vote. What about people that move a month or two before the election and don't have a new driver's license. Right now they can vote by bringing a utility bill or a neighbor to vouch residency for them. With photo ID they could be prevented from voting.

    I just think it's a solution looking for a problem to solve.
     
  5. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    What? Oh good grief
     
  6. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton New Member

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    I'd say I'm conservative, yes. But I don't view this as government intrusion into our lives. You don't have to vote if you don't want to, right? It may be your right, but it's a right you don't have to choose. They are merely stating if you choose to enact upon your right, please have a valid photo ID to prove you are who you say you are.

    Just because something is a constitutional right doesn't mean one shouldn't have to prove that the constitutional right belongs to them.

    As for your other scenarios, they bring their photo ID with their new gas bill. Pretty simply.

    It sounds to me like you don't care if illegals vote. At least that's the direction you're going by saying you don't want a simple process to take place.

    If 20 million people vote, but one of those 20 million people who voted was not an american, and they could've been stopped from voting by having to produce an ID, we need this. I think it's that simple.

    I don't think we'll ever be able to stop certain types of fraud (such as you listed above), but this is one step towards it.

     
  7. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    On the point of whole new government agencies with corresponding budgets - he's right. It will be used as an excuse to create a new agency whose sole task is to administer voter ID cards. Someone's going to have to design the card; you can expect a nice six or seven, or even eight figure amount to the contractor who does that. Then there's the distribution part; how will you get your voter ID?

    Even if it's pushed down to the local agencies to make it happen, the local areas are going to talk about additional work and resources. You gotta have the card stock; you gotta have the picture-taking capability (unless you allow people to send in their own photo, but that opens up a whole new discussion about fraud); if you don't allow people to send in a photo, you gotta have the facility for people to go to so they can get their photo taken; or you gotta have the computer/network system integration capability to use driver's license photos that are already in the DMV system; you gotta have the printing capability to print out the cards; you gotta have the postal funds to send out the cards; you gotta have the manpower to make it all happen....

    Yep, another federal agency is most likely; but they'll probably push the brunt of the work down to the local levels, and those levels will be looking for additional resources....

    I still say, make people show their social security card, or a letter from the social security administration identifying that they don't have a social security card. No additional agencies, no additional funds, no additional manpower.
     
  8. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    This agency already exists, it is called the motor Vehicle Department.
     
  9. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Voter ID is a state issue.

    The feds have nothing to do with it. No new federal agency would be needed.
     
    #49 carpro, Apr 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2012
  10. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton New Member

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    This. Just go to your local BMV and get an ID. You can also do it at some post offices, etc.
     
  11. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    OK, so I'm going to assume you're in favor of waiting periods for buying guns. Also, photo ID's being necessary to purchase guns at gun shows.

    If you've recently moved just prior to election day, unless you live in the same voting district your current driver's license won't work.

    Of course I don't want illegals to vote! Are they voting now? Is it a big problem?

    Photo ID will cause many more people to not be able to vote because they don't have a photo ID.
     
  12. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Then they should get one. It's their choice and there is no impediment to doing it.
     
  13. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Please cite cases of those have been refused the right to vote because of lack of ID.
     
  14. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton New Member

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    What's this have to do with voting for the POTUS? What I'm in favor for (or not) in any other area is moot to the discussion at hand.


    Most people know with ample time before they move that they are moving. It's called being responsible. I moved 6 weeks before the last election to a town 89 miles away from where I was registered. I didn't have any issues voting nor would I have if I needed to provide a valid ID.



    It doesn't matter how big of a problem it is. If one does it, then it's a problem.

    Which is an easy solution to rectify. You're trying to make it sound much harder than it is. You want to believe that you're giving up something to have to prove who you are to vote for our leader. You're not giving up anything. Not one thing.
     
  15. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton New Member

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    Exactly. Voting is a right. Voting isn't the law.

    If you want to drive, by law you have to have insurance. If you don't, you can lose your license/go to jail.


    Voting is a right that US Citizens have (most of them anyways). No one is taking that right away. No one (Despite what our friend wants to think).

    That right is still in front of anyone who wants to vote. Simple process really.
     
  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    You said:

    Just because something is a constitutional right doesn't mean one shouldn't have to prove that the constitutional right belongs to them.

    Just wondering, since gun ownership is a constitutional right, whether you are in favor of people having to prove that the constitutional right belongs to them when it comes to the 2nd amendment, just as you want them to prove it when it comes to the 15th amendment.
     
  17. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Yep, I do sounds like a left wing redirection question to me.
     
  18. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton New Member

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    We aren't talking about gun ownership. We're talking about voting for the POTUS.

    You want to talk about gun ownership, start a thread about gun ownership.
     
  19. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    [SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]I am currently against any special voter ID. In my opinion this voter ID is nothing but a political band aid that accomplishes little to nothing. Today it is no secret that some people vote by getting false ID (drivers license). I would like to have someone explain to me how having a voter ID will cure this? If they can now get a false ID how will another card keep them from getting just another false ID? Also how will it stop those who do it by absentee?[/SIZE][/SIZE]
    [/SIZE]
     
  20. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton New Member

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    It might not stop anything. It might discourage it.

    I just don't understand how it's racist, or anything for that matter, for me to show and ID of who I am when I shop up at the polls to vote.
     
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