Voting in the church

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by chriaskc, Feb 11, 2002.

  1. chriaskc

    chriaskc
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    What is the Biblical support for churches that vote for deacons?
     
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chriaskc:
    What is the Biblical support for churches that vote for deacons?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Acts 6:1-6
     
  3. chriaskc

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    It seems to me that the passage is clear about the multitude "nominating" men for the office, but the appointment is done by the leaders.
     
  4. TomVols

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Acts 6:3 (ESV)
    Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Here the apostles direct the church to select the candidates for the particular office (perhaps a prototype for the diaconate). Then the apostles lay hands on them to commission them for their work. This is in keeping with the congregational nature of the church.
     
  5. TomVols

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chriaskc:
    It seems to me that the passage is clear about the multitude "nominating" men for the office, but the appointment is done by the leaders.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Actually, it seems as though the apostles merely commission them. The church did the selection. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Acts 6:5-6 (ESV)
    And what they said pleased the whole gathering, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch. [6] These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands on them.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The 'they' in verse 5 refers to the church, as does verse 6. The church chooses the men, and then the church sets them before the apostles for the laying on of hands. The church is clearly active in the governance, following the leadership of the apostles.
     
  6. chriaskc

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    The KJV states:
    4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. 5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: 6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

    According to this, "they" in verse 5 in your ESV would be referring to the Apostles, not the church, given the context of verse 4.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

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    The nearest antecedent of "they" in verse five is the multitude, not the apostles. Addtionally, the context of v. 6 clarifies that "they" is the congregation for "they" brought the men selected in v. 5 before the apostles. Furthermore, why would the apostles tell the congregation to pick out men if the apostles intended to do it.
     
  8. TomVols

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    The KJV doesn't negate the pronoun references. Using your logic, in verse 6 the apostles bring the 7 before themselves. Seems a bit redundant and like a misreading of the text.
     
  9. TomVols

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    Correct Pastor Larry. I don't have my Greek NT here with me (I'm at home this morning) but I was thinking along those lines.
     
  10. Ransom

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    chriaskc said:

    According to this, "they" in verse 5 in your ESV would be referring to the Apostles, not the church, given the context of verse 4.

    You're ignoring verse 3: "Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation." In other words:

    <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>The apostles directed the congregation to choose deacons.
    <LI>They announced, conversely, that they would stay out of the process and devote themselves to prayer.
    <LI>The congregation approved of this, and chose Stephen, Philip, Procurus, and so forth.
    <LI>The apostles laid hands on them.
    [/list]
     
  11. chriaskc

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    Thank you for your insight!
     
  12. chriaskc

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    Also, is this the kind of thinking that drives church wide votes for money matters, interim pastors, etc.?
     
  13. TomVols

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    The NT teaches that congregational government is just that - congregational. So yes, while the elders lead and the deacons serve, the congregation governs itself.
     
  14. chriaskc

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TomVols:
    The NT teaches that congregational government is just that - congregational. So yes, while the elders lead and the deacons serve, the congregation governs itself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Could I get some references for that?
     
  15. Clint Kritzer

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    chriaskc -

    You must display a little patience. This is not a chat room and most of the folks with whom you are conferring are clergy with responsibilities outside of this web site. Your question will be answered.

    Clint Kritzer
    Moderator
     
  16. chriaskc

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    He can take as long as he wants. Actually, he will have to.
     
  17. Clint Kritzer

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    Aside from the previously noted passage in Acts, notice how the New Testament letters are addressed: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Romans 1
    7
    To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 1 Corinthians 1
    2
    To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ--their Lord and ours:
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 2 Corinthians 1
    1
    Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all the saints throughout Achaia:
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Galatians 1
    1
    Paul, an apostle--sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead--
    2
    and all the brothers with me, To the churches in Galatia:
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Ephesians 1
    1
    Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus,[1] the faithful[2] in Christ Jesus:
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    etc., etc.

    The letters that are instructions to the churches are to whole congregations, not just elders.

    I would also point to: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 1 Corinthians 5
    4
    When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present,
    5
    hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature[1] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hope this helps.

    - Clint
     
  18. chriaskc

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    I may be missing it, but I do not see how that constitutes the kind of thinking that has been pushed on this thread. Of course the letters will be addressed to the churches for instruction on running their lives, not their churches.
     
  19. Clint Kritzer

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    1 Peter 2
    9
    But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
    10
    Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

    Webster.com defines priesthood as: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 2 : the whole body of priests <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    The same site defines priest as: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> : one authorized to perform the sacred rites of a religion especially as a mediatory agent between humans and God <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The Baptist distinctive of the priesthood of the believers and the autonomy of the church are baseed on these and similar references.
     
  20. chriaskc

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    With all due respect, you cannot be serious. How does the identification of royal priesthood have anything to do with the role of the congregation? I think it might be a good idea to review verse 8, because if you are interpretting this passage for the subject at hand, there are some problems. I mean, if we are all "priests", then why would there be any need for pastors? Better yet, would you feel comfortable allowing a new babe in Christ the office of a "priest", because they are definitely a part of the congregation, right?

    I certainly hope not.
     

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