Walking the Extra Mile

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Deacon, Feb 3, 2007.

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What is the correct translation of a phrase in John 6:19?

  1. when they had rowed twenty-five or thirty stadia

    3 vote(s)
    18.8%
  2. when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs,

    4 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. when they had rowed about three or four miles,

    5 vote(s)
    31.3%
  4. I don’t know/don’t care

    2 vote(s)
    12.5%
  5. All the above.

    8 vote(s)
    50.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Deacon

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    What is the correct translation of this phrase first in John 6:19?

    Ἐληλακότες οὖν ὡς σταδίους εἴκοσιπέντε τριάκοντα,

    Rob
     
    #1 Deacon, Feb 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2007
  2. Ed Edwards

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    John 6:19 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003)
    After they had rowed
    about three or four miles,
    they saw Jesus walking on the sea.
    He was coming near the boat, and they were afraid.


    John 6:19 (KJV1611 Edition):
    So when they had rowed
    about fiue and twentie, or thirtie furlongs,
    they see Iesus walking on the sea,
    and drawing nigh vnto the ship: and they were afraid.


    I like the nKJV which says:
    At this place:

    http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster/webster.exe?search_for_texts_web1828=furlong

    the definition is given:
    That would make, if converted to miles:
    3&1/8 to 3&6/8.

    As with all distances, approximations are welcome
    so the meaning is exatcly the same, good enough
    for government work.

    Here is the Greek term according to Strong's:


    G4712
    στάδιον
    stadion
    stad'-ee-on
    Or the masculine plural form, στάδιος stadios stad'-ee-os.
    From the base of G2476 (as fixed);
    a stade or certain measure of distance;
    by implication a stadium or race course: - furlong, race.
     
  3. Deacon

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    Ἐληλακότες οὖν ὡς σταδίους εἴκοσιπέντε τριάκοντα,

    when they had rowed twenty-five or thirty stadia
    (Darby)

    when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs,
    (KJV, ASV, YLT, Wuest)

    when they had rowed about three or four miles,
    (NKJV, RSV, NRSV, NASB, ESV, HCSB, ISV, Message, NET, NIV (three of three and a half)

    The disciples had rowed about five or six kilometres when
    (GNT)

    How far is a stadia?
    How far is a furlong? (any horse racing fans out there?)

    But how shall men meditate in that which they cannot understand?
    How shall they understand that which is kept closed in an unknown tongue?

    Nature [has] taught a natural man to confess that all of us in those tongues which we do not understand are plainly deaf; we may turn the deaf ear unto them.

    It is translation that opens the window to let the light in;
    that breaks the shell, that we may eat the kernel;
    that puts aside the curtain, that we may look into the most Holy place;
    that removes the cover of the well, that we may come by the water, even as Jacob rolled away the stone from the mouth of the well, by which means the flocks of Laban were watered.
    Indeed without translation into the vulgar [appropriate or everyday] tongue, the unlearned are but like children at Jacobs well (which was deep) without a bucket or some thing to draw with:

    Selections from the Preface to the 1611 King James Version [LINK] (updated and anointed version)

    Rob
     
    #3 Deacon, Feb 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2007
  4. franklinmonroe

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    Correct translation? Are you implying there is only one in English? What about "None of the above" as choice? :laugh:
     
    #4 franklinmonroe, Feb 3, 2007
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  5. AntennaFarmer

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    comment deleted due to editing problems....A.F.
     
    #5 AntennaFarmer, Feb 4, 2007
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  6. AntennaFarmer

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    How about: ...when they had rowed about 4.625 kilometers or 5.550 kilometers,...


    Robbie Robot says: "must use metric, must use metric (beep squawk squeek)"

    ............

    Stadia (a transliteration) seems fairly obscure to me. I was more familiar with the word in another definition.


    Miles and meters are ok but less literal as they are not numerically identical to the original.


    The furlong is an obsolete unit but the English reader would be expected to (at least) recognize it as a unit of distance (in contrast to the stadium).


    From the online Oxford English Dictionary: furlong:


    "...As early as the 9th c. it was regarded as the equivalent of the Roman stadium, which was 1/8 of a Roman mile; and hence furlong has always been used as a name for the eighth part of an English mile, whether this coincided with the agricultural measure so called or not. ..."



    A.F.
     
    #6 AntennaFarmer, Feb 4, 2007
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  7. Deacon

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    I came across this while reading through the gospel of John yesterday.
    A couple points.
    • A translation is meant to convey information that the first readers would have understood when it was originally written. If we don’t know how far a stadia of a furlong is today, that would be a faulty translation for our time and culture because it doesn’t convey the information.
    • The distances are inexact. The inspiration of the Holy Spirit did not mean that everything the author wrote was exactly accurate. Just like today when we say it is three o’clock, there is a built in buffer that includes some inexactness. AF jokingly proposed ‘4.625 or 5.550 kilometers’; that would be wrong. It goes beyond the original intent of the passage.
    My answer, they are all correct!

    But some are better at expressing the information to today's readers than others.

    Rob
     
  8. Keith M

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    Every time I have read this I have recognized the fact we were being told they had rowed some distance from shore. The distance is not of major importance. It doesn't matter whether the boat was 100 yards off shore, 10 miles off shore or anywhere in between, the miraculous event is that Jesus walked to them on the water. If we focus our attention on the distance rather than on the miracle, we're missing the point entirely. The distance of the boat from shore certainly isn't something to debate in light of the fact that Jesus was able to overcome the physical limitations that restict us as humans.

    BTW my vote was "I don't know/don't care" due to the lack of a choice more appropriate to my conviction on the matter.
     
  9. robycop3

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    I agree with Keith. The idea is that they had rowed a fair distance from the shore, far enough to not have been easily seen from the shore, and far enough so that the water was too deep to have been waded. No one measured the distence; it was guestimated by a fisherman whose familiarity with the lake would lend a fair amount of accuracy to his guestimate.

    As Keith said, the focus should be on the fact that Jesus walked on the surface of the water.
     
  10. Lacy Evans

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    So basically any Bible that has a word we don't understand is a faulty translation?

    http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861613958

    http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861714350/stadia.html


    There I fixed your Bible.

    Lacy
     
  11. Deacon

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    :laugh: You only confused me all the more, Lacy.
    Which one of the disciples was a surveyor?
    And where in the world did they get a telescope?

    Rob
     
  12. robycop3

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    "Much ado about nothing"

    ....Shakespeare
     
  13. Deacon

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    That's why "I don't care" is listed above "all of the above"

    Rob
     
  14. Lacy Evans

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    You brought up "stadia." The word is not in my Bible. My point was, when we feel so free to change/retranslate the Bible when it doesn't really matter, (I can look up "furlong" in the dictionary and the word is still in use.) then what's to stop us from changing it to whatever we like when it really does matter. I just think we should not rush in where angels fear to tread.

    Lacy
     
  15. AntennaFarmer

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    A telescope? You mean 25 or 30 telescopes!

    And why would one "row" a telescope?

    A.F.
     
  16. Keith M

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    Mountains out of mole hills...:sleep: :sleeping_2:
     
  17. Bob Alkire

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    The distance that the disciples rowed in the Greek text is 25 or 30 stadia, which is between two and three quarters miles and three and a half miles. Matthew and Mark wrote that the disciples were in the middle of the lake probably meaning that they were well out into it (Matt. 14:24; Mark 6:47). Some scholars wishing to depreciate this miracle have translated the Greek preposition epi as “by” rather than “on.” However, the context and the Synoptics clearly present Jesus as walking on the water, not on the shore beside the water.
     
  18. Mexdeaf

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    Well, it is a good thing Jesus showed up or they would have needed a periscope!
     
  19. Lacy Evans

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    If I saw someone walking on the sea I might need a stethoscope!:wavey:

    Lacy
     
  20. Keith M

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    Hmmm...if I saw someone walking on the sea it would probably be too late for a stethoscope to be of any use. Just go get a shovel and bury me 'cause the old ticker would have already ticked its last tock!

    :wavey:
     

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