Wall Street Won't Change

Discussion in 'Money Talk$' started by LeBuick, Oct 23, 2008.

  1. LeBuick

    LeBuick
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    I can't believe some of you still fall for the lie that giving tax breaks to corporations will increase jobs or wealth in this country. Giving tax breaks to corporations will do nothing but increase CEO's and executives pay while they ship more jobs overseas.

    In the face of the financial melt down, you can't even trust these guys with the bailout money... And they know we are watching!


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/17/executivesalaries-banking

     
  2. saturneptune

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    The first thing that should be done with the $700 billion bailout money, the Obama-McCain socialist experiment, is to build a giant penitentary with lots of rocks to break up and lots of work for chain gangs. There needs to be an intense investigation of the politicians, CEOs, Wall Street thieves that contributed to this mess, and lock up everyone of them for life for treason for destroying the American economy.
     
  3. LeBuick

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    I absolutely agree, this is ridiculous. They just announced over 5K jobs have been cut this week and it looks like there were 81K foreclosures in Sept and these jokers still don't get it. American is hemorrhaging at the low end and the guys at the top will need a 10 step program to get off their addition to money. Putting them all together in a penitentiary may be the solution but I suggest they share a cell with Brutus so they can see how it feels to suffer helplessly.
     
  4. Pastor Larry

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    IMO, the continued sell-off is due to a large degree to panic by undisciplined investors. Just stop selling. There has been a lot of mismanagement, but I think it is more complex than that. You have a lot of inexperienced people daytrading. You have a lot of people basically just gambling trying to find the next hot stock. You had people buying overpriced houses without adequate financial basis. You had unscrupulous lenders loaning to people without adequate financial basis. Three years ago when the housing market here was skyrocketing I said it couldn't continue. But people were buying in hoping that it would and they would make their money. Today I have friends sitting on houses they can't sell while they live in another part of the country. So to blame it all on Wall Street is not accurate.
     
    #4 Pastor Larry, Oct 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2008
  5. LeBuick

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    I agree the problem is more global than just CEO's salaries but their pay doesn't make America confident. We were encouraged to invest in the market when 401K replaced pensions and our president saying, "you can manage your money better then the government can". He made it sound like anyone can make it rich in the market which we now see was bad for the market.
     
  6. JustChristian

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    This is ridiculous. We're in a world wide financial crisis. Companies are starting to lay off significantly. Greenspan just admitted he made mistakes in not regulating derivatives. This is not a normal bear market. After the 1929 crash the market didn't get back to where it was before the crash for 25 years.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

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    What exactly did I say that is ridiculous. Everything you said is true, and none of it discounts anything that I said. The economy is more complex than you are allowing it seems.
     
  8. LeBuick

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    If you listen closely to Greenspan, he says his biggest mistake was thinking the company executives wouldn't take such advantage of their investors. Something to that effect, I will have to find the quote and post it.
     
  9. LeBuick

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  10. billwald

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    Even if Wall Street and Washington were 100% honest Bible believing Christians the long range problem would still exist because a large middle class is a freak post WW2 phenomenon that mostly benefited people in Europe, the US, and some of the other British speaking countries. The historical norm is maybe 30% poor, 50% working poor, 15% middle class (mostly business owners and managers), and 5% stinking rich.

    You want the good old days of the 1950s? It might be possible if we had 50s cars, houses, appliances, food, and medical treatments - and the average person living until age 70 if he is lucky. Modern electronics requires very high tech equipment made in very large quantities by very low paid people. Truth, our life style has been produced by the poverty life style of the people living south of the equator, China, Korea . . . .

    After WW2 it was Japan that produced cheap consumer goods for Americans. When the Japanese raised their standard of living it became the South Koreans that provided the labor for the Americans and Japanese and so on to Red China and India.
     
  11. LeBuick

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    Wow, 80% poor... That's anti-American!
     
  12. Pastor Larry

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    This is a bit of irony, it seems to me. The pursuit of higher standards of living actually produce a lower standard of living. Paying higher wages means costs go up which means prices go up which means your higher wage buys less than your lower wage bought.

    The products people want to buy cannot be produced for the price they want to pay without cheap labor. People complain prices are too high, but that's the result of wages being high.
     
    #12 Pastor Larry, Oct 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2008
  13. billwald

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    The working class in the 3rd world countries are marginally better because they are producing cheap stuff for us. When the Japanese became to rich the production shifted to So Korea. When the So Koreans improved their living conditions the production shifted to Red China. Now China has a middle class and production is shifting to India.

    But thanks to cell phones and TV the serfs are realizing that they are serfs and don't like it.
     
  14. LeBuick

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    So we're doing a good job of spreading inflation... :thumbs:
     
  15. billwald

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    Or raising the standard of living of the entire world.

    Further, one must differentiate between money inflation and work hours per consumer goods purchase. In the US, except for the housing bubble, food, clothing, and most consumer goods are MUCH cheaper in terms of cost per hours worked. Even gasoline at $3. When gas was two bits most people were making less than a dollar hour. Now days the median wage is around $40K, around $17.50/hour or 5 gallons an hour.
     
  16. Andy T.

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    Actually, I think we should increase the corporate tax rate, since we only have the no. 2 or 3 highest corporate tax rate in the world, so we need to shoot for no. 1. That'll show them! And when corporations start going out of business because of their increased tax burden, we'll make them stay in business, by golly! We'll tell them that they have to stay in business no matter how much money they lose! Yes, that is the answer!
     
  17. LeBuick

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    Show me proof one company has ever closed their doors because of "tax burden". Again, the conservative scare tactic of you will loose your job if we raise corporate taxes. All lowering corporate taxes has done is raised CEO and top executive bonuses. If a job is added, it will likely be in another country.
     
  18. billwald

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    After WW2 when every year the working class people a little better, 80% of the savings due to increased productivity went to the workers. Now days 80% goes to the CEOs and stockholders.

    What changed? After WW2 and for the 6000 years before WW2 the working class KNEW they were working class. The workers knew they could only get a larger slice of the pie by co-operating with other workers aka labor unions.

    Our owners (as in 'I owe my soul to the company store and the bank') couldn't let that situation continue. They had a plan. They dumbed down the public school systems so that a kid had to go to a junior college to get a high school education. Then they changed the name to "junior college" and gave the "graduates" a diploma instead of a 2 year certificate. They now think they are college graduates. Problem solved.

    College graduates are real smart - to smart to need a join to represent them. They can represent themselves. They have earned the right to be free of the evil labor unions and to live like serfs. But they are free, church going Republican gun carrying Americans and have earned their stupidity.

    How come only public school teachers, public employees and Boeing engineers are ignorant enough to think they are working people and need a union? How come all you freeborn independent Protestant Christian freeborn gun carrying Americans complain that the ignorant teachers and public employees get paid better and have better bennies than you all do? Which has better pay scales? The blue or red states? Which are 'union' states?
     
  19. rbell

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    Well, it would take a week to correct the post of yours...

    Let's just put it like this:

    Michigan: Hard-core union state. Auto industry hemhorraging. Economy wrecked.

    Alabama: Not a union state. Booming economy. Auto industry taking off.


    Figure it out yet, or shall I draw you a picture?
     
  20. LeBuick

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    I agree, this is a picture that doesn't favor unions but then again, and I hate to say this, but it seems the Japanese have a superior product (man I hate to say that) at a reasonable price. Now I know the price has a lot to do with the union benefits such as pensions, free health care etc... but I had to point out the fact the Japanese are selling cars...
     

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