1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Wanted: Dead or alive

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by npetreley, Jun 1, 2003.

Top Posters
  1. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    There is an interesting contrast in John 11.

    The contrast is as follows:

    1. If you believe in Jesus, though you may die, yet you shall live

    2. If you live and believe in Jesus, you shall never die.

    I found the above difficult to sort out, and although I have my own opinion of how the two seemingly disjointed statements fit together, I'm not 100% certain of my conclusion.

    Rather than share it yet, I wondered what others thought the above means. If you live and believe in Jesus and therefore never die, how is it possible that you can die and believe in Jesus, yet you will live?

    I will address an obvious interpretation, however (text added in brackets is mine, of course):

    John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die [physically], he shall live [spiritually, and eventually physically at the resurrection]. 26 And whoever lives [spiritually] and believes in Me shall never die [spiritually].

    While the above may be true (and note the eternal security of the believer if this is the right interpretation), I'm not so sure this is what Jesus is saying. Anyway, I hope others have thoughts.

    I hope this is the right place to start this discussion.
     
    #1 npetreley, Jun 1, 2003
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,285
    Likes Received:
    507
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are on track with that interpretation, friend! The second phrase in dependendent on the first.

    IF part one is true (though die, yet live)
    THEN part two is true (never really die)

    And eternal security is probably taught most strongly in all of the Gospels in John 10-15. (Jesus was only days from death and knew that this would be a real issue for heart-sick disciples)
     
    #2 Dr. Bob, Jun 2, 2003
  3. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    Well, this is going to sound weird, because I agree with the interpretation I cited, and I'd be perfectly content to leave it at that if I didn't wonder if there were more to it. The second verse seems entirely superfluous unless its whole purpose is eternal security. If that's what it's there for, then that's probably all there is to it.

    But every once in a while, I wonder about the issue that those who "die" in the Lord actually don't die, but "fall asleep", and I wonder if that has anything to do with the verse.
     
    #3 npetreley, Jun 2, 2003
  4. Anja

    Anja New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    The ‘First Resurrection’ is the Rapture which involves the resurrection of both dead and living believers. Therefore the verse will read like this;
    John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. (Though he may die of natural causes, he will be resurrected at the Rapture and live eternally) 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. (And whoever is alive when I come back and believes in Me shall be Raptured without dying).
    Ref. 1 Co 15:51 and 52, Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed (at the Rapture),
     
    #4 Anja, Jun 11, 2003
  5. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not wanting to evolve this into an eternal security debate, but I think the Greek word translated "believeth" is in the tense that conveys an ongoing belief, rather than a one-time belief. I don't have my reference tools with me at the moment - can anyone verify or confute?
     
    #5 BrianT, Jun 11, 2003
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...