Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 16, 2006.
Where do you stand? Vote now.
Just an informal opinion poll, huh? :laugh:
About time the Republicans tried a put up or shut up approach. Interesting that only 6 of the nut-jobs voted against this time. I think the Republicans should make political hay with this one, same as the dems have tried to do with everything half-baked innuendo they could come up with.
More than about time.raise:
This is actually the second time they have done it. The first time was when Murtha first called for a cut and run coward policy.
I'm the no vote.
I feel that our mission here on earth is not to help make the world safe in this manner, this world is a bad place, and will always be a bad place.
I feel that we, as Christians should focus on teaching the Word and let the chips fall where they will, which I think will have an effect of making the World safer as more people come to Christ.
I trust God and know that he won't allow harm to come to me unless it's his will and my time. Terroist or not, bomb or not, No one can harm me unless it's God's will. Of course I am not stupid and I don't walk in front of moving cars "testing" God, but I do trust him to keep me safe.
I think we as a people, as Christian people, get caught up in the world of things too much and I believe this is one of them. Democrat or Republican, as a Christians we should just Let go and Let God handle things.
To me, this is like the War of Drugs. How many years did that start and where is the progress?
I am should I will get flamed for this opinion, but I don't care, it's my opinion and I am sticking to it.
Zipping up my flame-proof suit....
I appreciate your right to your opinion. I disagree for the following reasons:
1. Had it not been for the USA standing up for what is right throughout history when they have done so, I and probably most of my ancestors (being Polish Jews) would have been a bar of soap by now and everyone alive today would have been speaking German and shouting Seig Heil. I realize that this is of little consequence to you, but I, for one am grateful that America confronted evil in their time and put a stop to it.
2. I also believe that while God will protect us if it is his will, that he also calls governments like America to be his instruments of justice and protection. There is certainly Biblical evidence for this.
3. Nothing happens that is not within the will of God. You are correct there. Have you ever considered the possibility that God raised up president Bush and the USA to intervene in this situation?
Romans 13:1-4 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Does that change your opinion a bit?
You forgot to add, that God said there are also powers not ordained by Him.
They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not. Hosea 8:4
And what about Romans 12:2?
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Or 2 Corinthians 6:14-17
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
Or Hebrews 13:7
Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of [their] conversation.
Has the state spoken the word of God to you?
Or Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.
Does the state watch for your soul?
Paul wasn't speaking of Ceasar's authority or the state in Romans 13 if he were he would have said obey Ceasar. He was speaking of God's government on earth the church and the leaders in the church. And then we even have biblical intsruction on what to do if and when the leaders of the church become corrupted like Israel's spiritual leaders during Christ's time in the flesh as many are today .
As Peter said in Acts 5:29 We ought to obey God rather than men.
Paul was writting to the church in Rome that were the citizens of the kingdom of Christ, not the people of Rome who were the citizens of an earthly kingdom.
Our citizenship is in heaven. Philippians 3:20
Besides if Paul was commanding us to obey the state our brother Joseph would be in rebellion against God for condemning Saddam Hussein and Hitler after all they would be the "higher powers" ordained by God would they not? And we all would be in rebellion against God for speaking out or protesting against abortion if the higher powers Paul was speaking of were the state.
Would you resist evil men like Saddam or Hitler knowing they were evil or would you submit and obey them? Would you kill for them if they commanded you too? Or would you "resist the power"?
So, Jamie, why do you think that this is not God's will in the way things are done?
The term "War on Terror" is bogus. It can be used to invade whoever the administration wants. I supported going to Afghanistan...clear links to the 9/11 incidents, and sheltering OBL. Iraq no, they had no part in it.
I can understand your reasons given above, but I still stand by my opinion. Over the next day or so I will think about it and let you know the outcome.
I love this board and it's art of actively making me think!
I voted yes as I support going after al Qaeda.
Me too, which is why I am glad we just killed Zarqawi.
Same for me also, Al-Queda are present in Iraq, and if we are going to fight Terrorism we have to take them on wherever they are.
Looking back on it though I do concede that alot less people would likely have been killed if Hussein was still in power as he did excersize some measure of control over Iraq. Yet he too was a heinous dictator that murdered people and deserves to be brought to justice. Yet I am not sure what other way there was to achieve that result. Kidnapping him and Uday might sound good in theory but I think that if that really could have been done then they would have. It would have been significantly cheaper.
Like everyone else I want to see Bin Laden taken down. Yet I think that he is either in Somalia or the hills of Pakistan, and I would like to see more resources going into getting him.
I also voted no because there is no such thing as a "war on terror." If there was, our borders would be secure.
I don't think I've heard anyone express this particular perspective before. If your ancestors are Polish Jews, and you are a Christian, you certainly have a rather unique perspective. I wonder how many descendents of the Polish Jewish community that survived World War II are converts to Christianity. Do you know? You are probably pretty rare in that regard. The only other Polish Jewish survivor of World War II that I know, the grandfather of one of my roomates from law school, is an avowed aethist, largely due to his experiences from the war. He associates the Nazi movement with Christianity and on top of that, his memories of his life in Poland before the war are pretty painful as a result of the persecution he experienced at the hands of people he sees as representative of "Christians." Obviously somewhere in your family background someone encountered a Christian who was for real.
My dad was the first and only one on that side of the family. The rest of his family followed Christ also as we were raised in a Baptist Church.
That's fascinating. So, do you have a special appreciation for the term, "chosen people."?
And, just out of curiosity, how doyou feel about calvinism?
I feel pretty good about Calvinism. As for the Chosen People term, I think it is in the Bible, so I am ok with it.
For more info about how I feel about Calvinism, please check out some of my Blog entries here, here, here, and here. So, why do you ask?
I voted yes. Are we not our brother's keeper?
Since the terrorists are based in Pakistan, Yemen, Gaza and the West Bank, and we are not fighting a war on terror in any of those places at the present time, I wasn't sure how to respond. The war in Iraq is not a war on "terror" but a war of American support for one sect of Islam against the sect to which Saddam belonged and by which he controlled the country. It is not a war on terror.