Was Abraham justified(declared righteous) whilst in the flesh?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SovereignGrace, Sep 15, 2016.

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Was Abraham justified(declared righteous) whilst in the flesh?

  1. Yes

    87.5%
  2. No

    12.5%
  3. Not for sure

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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace
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    I say yes.
     
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  2. kyredneck

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    Methinks if his name was written before the foundation of the world his justification was a given.
     
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  3. percho

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    I believe, in reality he was justified before the foundation of the world.

    Before the foundation of the world it was determined the Christ, as of a lamb without spot and without blemish, would shed his blood for redemption, therefore God, who can not lie, made the promise of, the hope of eternal life. The Christ would come into the world subject to death.

    That is the faith of God. The faith by which man could be justified, made righteous, by which the Holy Spirit could be received. The faith through which one could be saved.

    Abraham was told of this justification when God told him in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.

    What would make the faith of God, reality, would be learned obedience through sufferings unto death by the Son of God born of woman.

    Thus Galatians 3:23; Before the coming of the faith and 25; After the faith came. The promise given, by the resurrection, eternal life incorruptible, see Rom 6:9 and Acts 12:34 revealed faith Gal 3:23 The substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.

    who has saved us, and has called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages of time, but has been made manifest now by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who has annulled death, and brought to light life and incorruptibility by [the glad tidings;] The gospel. 2 Tim 1:9,10 Darby

    Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Gal 3:19
    God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:1,2
    And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Rom 8:17

    From the foundation of the world. IMHO
     
  4. percho

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    Predicated on the obedience of one, "man," the Son of God?

    Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
     
  5. SovereignGrace

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    The thing is is Abraham believed God and it was "reckoned"[ASV], "credited"[AMP], "reckoned"[DARBY], "counted"[ESV], "counted"[GNV], "credited"[HCSB], "credited"[ISV], "counted"[KJV], "credited"[NASB], "credited"[NIV], "reckoned"[RSV], "accounted"[WEB], and "reckoned"[YLT].

    All these mean he(Abraham) was "credited", "reckoned" and/or "accounted" righteous before God. This means he was justified by faith in the sight of God, and by being declared righteous, he was imputed with the righteousness of Christ.
     
  6. percho

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    But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Romans 4:24

    Is the righteousness imputed (accounted, credited, reckoned) to us because of the obedience of one or because of our inherent belief?

    Did not God call Abram from darkness unto light, out of unbelief unto belief? Was God in Abram working out the purpose of God unto the manifestation of the Son of God, as the seed of man, to destroy the works of the devil who was a sinner from the beginning and if Abram did not pass the test then God would move on to another or did God call Abram to become Abraham?

    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

    The only replacement of, the faith, I see in the word of God unto the manifestation of the Son of God was Seth for Abel and that wasn't because of unbelief of one of faith but because one of the devil killed the one of faith.

    There hasn't been a much greater sinner than David, yet David was a man after the heart of God and what did he say? Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Rom 4:8
     
  7. SovereignGrace

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    Correct. The very promises God gave to Abraham we now receive. Abraham was justified by faith, and if someone is not justified, they are still under condemnation. To say that Abraham's faith was justified, but Abraham himself was not declared righteous through Jesus Christ, is idiotic.

    Any righteousness we have comes through the One, Jesus Christ.

    There is no 'Plan B' with God. He knew Abram would 'pass the test' because being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.[Philippians 1:6]

    Please expound. I don't know the thought you are conveying here.

    Egg-zactly.
     
  8. Martin Marprelate

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    Nope. He was justified when he believed. Until that time he was under the wrath of God (Ephesians 2:3; Isaiah 12:1-3).
     
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  9. SovereignGrace

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    Yessir...

    Everything Christ did, He did for those the Father gave Him. That even included them pre-cross. They believed God in the OT days and that belief unto the truth caused them to be imputed with Christ's righteousness.
     
  10. SovereignGrace

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    Beautiful! Marvelous! Wonderful! Glorious!

    Bravo!
    Encore!
    Kudos!
     
  11. Alcott

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    Was Abraham justified(declared righteous) whilst in the flesh?

    Not nearly as much as after he was shot in the head.
    Oh.....wrong Abe.
     
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  12. percho

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    To the both of you and all others; Here is my understanding.

    Correct Abram was a child of wrath, a child of unbelief. However God, while Abram was in unbelief, choose him to be a man through whom the Christ, the Son of God, born of woman would come. Therefore God called Abram out if unbelief unto belief, telling him of this child of his in whom all the nations of the earth would be blessed, changing his name to Abraham, the father of those who would be, of faith.

    Faith is what God the Father believed concerning his Son born of woman, the seed (singular) of Abraham. God the Father believed his Son born of woman would through sufferings learn, the obedience. Heb 5:7,8.

    Was the Son in agony concerning giving his life? Real agony, in the Garden of Gethsemane, striving against sin? Disobedience. Jesus was sinless yet our sins were bearing down against him. Is this verse speaking of Jesus? Hebrews 12:5 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

    Hebrews 12:2 looking to the author and perfecter of the faith -- Jesus, who, over-against the joy set before him -- did endure a cross, shame having despised, on the right hand also of the throne of God did sit down; YLT and I added the, "the," because it is there.

    Was it the obedience of, "one," that authored and perfected, "the," faith? Whose, "faith," belief?

    Isn't it because, faith came, that we have been translated from unbelief, children of wrath unto believing ones, belief, children of God by being given the Spirit of adoption?

    Isn't it that same, "faith," of God by which Abram became a believing one, Abraham the father of the faithful, being the father of the seed, Christ, singular?

    For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Romans 9:9-13

    Was one of these going to be a believing one, of faith? Of the faith? Was one of these going to be declared righteous?
     
  13. Martin Marprelate

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    I'm sure it's my fault, but I sometimes find your posts very difficult to understand.
    However, what I think you are doing is confusing election with justification. Election has been decreed by God in eternity past (Ephesians 1:4); justification is a declaration made by God in time. Before it is made, God's elect remain under His judicial wrath. Read Isaiah 12 again.
     
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  14. Yeshua1

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    Agreed, as there is no eternal justification in the sense that one is born already saved and right with God, as even the Elect themselves must and will come to faith in jesus!
     
  15. percho

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    No, I think it is my fault in not being able to clarify myself.
     
  16. TCassidy

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    I use our political system as an illustration.

    On November 8th we will elect a new president.

    But the person elected will not become president until he/she takes the oath and the office.

    I was elected unto salvation in eternity past.

    I was saved when I took the oath (confessed the LORD Jesus) and the office (of a child of God).
     
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  17. Yeshua1

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    Yes, as you were destined to become saved, but until that event actually happens in real history, were still lost!
     
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  18. percho

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    According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1:4,5

    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: R 5:1
    Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. :9,10

    Just as I am or Just as I was?

    Thank you, Lord.
     
  19. SovereignGrace

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    Just as I was. If it was 'Just as I am', then there was no change made within me.

    Yes. Thank you, Lord.
     
  20. SovereignGrace

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    Predestined...
     

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