Was Adam perfect or did he have a weakness?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Oct 24, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    I listened to some guy on MP3 today who said that both Adam and Lucifer had a weakness and God purposely created them this way. God planned everything and knew it. He knew that Lucifer would sin and that Adam would fall because if he didn't knew it and if God simply made a mistake then he isn't God. This means God knew it and planned it and Satan is almost like God's servant and he cannot do anything which God doesn't allow him to do.
    What do you think about this?
     
  2. webdog

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    God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent. Adam and Satan were not.
     
  3. Chemnitz

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    Well, I think it is pretty obvious that Adam had a weakness for fruit. :laugh:

    Adam was created in perfection otherwise God would not have said it was good and He has made it abundantly clear that he conciders only perfection to be good. Now God did not create him to be omniscent, omnipresent, or omnipotent, but I would not say that is a weakness per say.
     
  4. ccrobinson

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    Moreso than the fruit was Adam's weakness for his wife. His thought process seemed to be that it was better to die with her than to live without her.

    God knew that man would sin and put in place a plan to deal with that sin. I wouldn't call Satan a servant, as that implies a willingness to serve. Satan has no willingness to serve anybody.

    Yes, the first thing I completely agree on.
     
  5. EdSutton

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    You beat me to that line. I had the same exact thought about the fruit! :thumbsup: Great minds run in the same gutter, I once heard someone say. Take it for what it's worth. :tongue3: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  6. xdisciplex

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    But where do we know what God meant with "good"? Maybe God simply meant that the creation and also the way Adam was was good and suitable for his spirit to dwell in. Maybe this is what he meant.
     
  7. EdSutton

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    Did I read it wrongly, or does Scripture say, after the creation of man (male and female), that "God saw (even though He had known this from before the outset)... that it was 'very good'", whereas before that, it was only said that "God saw that it was good" or merely "and it was so"? :confused:

    Ed
     
    #7 EdSutton, Oct 25, 2006
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  8. BobRyan

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    Adam fell into sin - not because God made him "defective" but because in a sinless holy state he was given free will and was tempted and chose to sin.

    It really is that simple.

    Today humans are born with sinFUL natures - we are inclined to sin from birth according to Romans 3. Adam was created sinLESS - in perfect harmony with God and God's Law - as is our "New Birth" "New Creation" New nature given to us at conversion. But in our case we then have BOTH a sinFUL nature and a new-creation nature with the "Law of God written on the tablets of the human heart" Heb 8 (under the "New Covenant" promise of the ONE Gospel -- the promise that has been fulfilled to all saints in all of time starting with Adam after his fall.)

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #8 BobRyan, Oct 25, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2006
  9. dispen4ever

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    .......and God knew that, that would happen. That fact is at the heart of xd's question. God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit, were already in existence before creation. The mission that Jesus was given was given to Him before creation. This is that area where man must leave his brains at the door, seeking to understand only from the spiritual nature. Does his seeking fall short of an answer? Are there limits to what we are permitted to know? Could we comprehend it, even if we saw it all repeated, in 3 dimensions, on a screen that stretched across the night sky?

    Not to worry! The Good News remains the same, regardless of man's imperfect understanding of its ultimate origin.
     
  10. Magnetic Poles

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    Adam's weakness? Fruit. Oh yeah, and women. Fruit and women.:D
     
  11. Alcott

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    Was Adam perfect or did he have a weakness?

    Not until he lost part of his support structure-- a rib.
     
  12. Brother Bob

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    Romans: 8
    "20": For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

    He was without sin but he could sin, seems to me if he was perfect he would not of been able to sin.
     
  13. hillclimber1

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    Sure is. Bet he wished he could have "overs"
     
  14. xdisciplex

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    But wasn't there something special about Lucifer? Lucifer was not tempted to sin like Adam was. It's not the same. Lucifer started to sin on his own! He was also sinless and perfect, right? But yet he started to sin without being tempted by an outer force! :eek::eek:

    If Lucifer could sin as a perfect being without being tempted by anyone then does this not also mean that christians could still sin in heaven? Because in heaven it'll be the same situation again.
     
  15. EdSutton

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    How are you 'defining' "perfect" here? Especially since it obviously does not mean 'not "able" to sin'?

    Ed
     
  16. Amy.G

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    X said:
    HTML:
    If Lucifer could sin as a perfect being without being tempted by anyone then does this not also mean that christians could still sin in heaven? Because in heaven it'll be the same situation again
    .

    Lucifer sinned not because of outside temptation but because of pride.
     
  17. BobRyan

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    You have elected to define "perfect" as "not able" to sin. By that definition all the angels in heaven are "imperfect" even the loyal faithful ones.

    And God who makes them capable of sin - is then flawed -- by that definition.
     
  18. Brother Bob

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    agreed, I take Christ as being perfect and Adam had a flaw in that he could sin if he chose.
     
  19. xdisciplex

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    Um.
    Does this mean that in heaven we will not have a free will anymore because if we had a free will it might happen that somebody starts to sin again and then the whole thing starts all over. Does this mean that in heaven we will be like robots?
    Or that God will limit our free will?
    What if God wants you to worship and you don't feel like worshipping and rather do something else? Is something like this even possible? Or will you be totally submissive in heaven?
     
  20. Brother Bob

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    All nature will be left behind so those kind of things to do or think about won't exist as tears will be wiped away also.
     

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