Was Balaam "Saved"?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Jan 19, 2005.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Do you think Balaam will be in heaven? Here is a bried synopsis of his Scriptural record and why I would say "probably yes":

    Numbers 22:8 - Balaam said that God (YHWH) would speak to him as His messenger

    Numbers 22:9 - God spoke to Balaam

    Numbers 22:13 - Balaam rejects offer to curse, saying God had directed him not to. He obeyed the Word of the Lord.

    Numbers 22:18 - Balaam refuses huge payment because he would not go against the 'Word of the Lord MY God'.

    Numbers 22:20 - God again speaks to Balaam.

    Numbers 22:31 - When God revealed Himself to Balaam (after the donkey incident!) Balaam bowed before God and fell down on his face.

    Numbers 22:32 - God condemned Balaam because he was rash in his action ('perverse' in AV)

    Numbers 22:34 - Balaam repents of his rashness. Yep. Repented.

    Numbers 23:4 - God met Balaam and was pleased with his offerings

    Numbers 23:7-11 - Balaam blesses the Israelis as God's people

    Numbers 23:19-24 - Balaam blesses Israel again (some really great verses about God and his sovereignty)

    Numbers 24:2 - Spirit of God comes upon Balaam (Spirit came and left men until Pentecost; now we have indwelling, PTL)

    Numbers 24:16 - Balaam heard the Word from the Lord and knew the Lord.

    Numbers 31:8 - Balaam is killed by the Israeli army of conquest

    Numbers 31:16 - Balaam's wrong counsel is condemned.

    Joshua 13:22 - Balaam is called a "diviner" or soothsayer, making a living by telling the future

    Deuteronomy 23:4-5/Joshua 24:9-10/Nehemiah 13:2 - Balaam's faithfulness in proclaiming the message of the Lord instead of cursing Israel

    Micah 6:5 - People are to remember the righteous words of Balaam

    Jude 11 speaks about avoiding the error of Balaam

    Jesus in Revelation 2 warns the church about the doctrine of Balaam

    ~~~~~~~~~

    Your thoughts?
     
  2. Bro. Curtis

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    I always thought that he had to be saved. He was a priest, wasn't he ? Didn't God hand pick those guys in the days of Numbers ?

    But it is clear he encouraged Israel into idolatry & fornication. But God clearly used him, even, it seems, putting him under a spell to get his word out.

    Also, it is interestng, that the ass spoke in a man's voice. More ammo in the anti-women preacher cannon....(perhaps another thread ?)
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Oh THAT will get you in trouble with those ladies who want to be pastors/deacons!! [​IMG]
     
  4. Bro. Curtis

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    Oh, I'm allready in trouble with those folks. But a female ass, talking in a man's voice.....you do the math.

    Anyhoo, back to Balaam, in Numbers 22.....

    He CLEARLY waits God's permission to travel with the princes of Moab, refusing to go the first two times as per God's command. Here's where I get a little confused. I don't see a verse that says they came, but rather, Balaam takes it upon himself to travel on his own. Am I way off ?
     
  5. Phillip

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    Let's remember Jonah and David. Both strayed from the Lord's will, both are obviously saved. What did Balaam do that was any worse?

    My point is that as a priest, he must have been God's annointed. He's still human and still sinful. I have to say that he's saved.

    As far as the ass was concerned--who was speaking through the ass?

    And by the way, off track, everybody assumes angels to have no sexual identity, aren't angels always depicted as male when used as messengers, or is this just because they are truly spiritual beings and they just happen to have appeared as men? Would it make more sense that an angel appearing as a man (especially in the days of the Bible) would provide more clout to the message? (Another strike against women preachers.....ooops.)
     
  6. Johnv

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    Dunno. People in the OT weren't "saved" per se. They were righteous or unrighteous. When they died, their souls went to rest in Sheol (in Greek, Hades). When Jesus in the NT decended to Sheol, we don't know which sould he took with him to be with the Father in Heaven. We can presume that the souls of the righteous qualify, but only God knows for sure, just like only God knows who is saved and not saved today. Perhaps that's why scripture gives us the caveat that we should refrain from judging peoples' salvation.
     
  7. Bro. Curtis

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    My point exactly.

    And to Johnv, David had the Holy Spirit. That would indicate New Testament salvation, wouldn't you think ?
     
  8. Johnv

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    I would concur, yes.
     
  9. Bro. Curtis

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    Which would lead to another whole thread, as I agree with some of the points you raised, also.
     
  10. Johnv

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    So long as no one tries to claim that Baalam's ass was saved, I think we're all singing from the same hymnal [​IMG]
     
  11. menageriekeeper

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    Ooh, I'm going to tell the ladies! :eek: ;)

    Numbers 23:4 - God met Balaam and was pleased with his offerings

    Numbers 24:16 - Balaam heard the Word from the Lord and knew the Lord.

    I think these to verse point to the heart of the matter. Can God be pleased with us and can we know God and not be saved? (well at least saved as far as salvation occured in old testament times, I agree with Johnv on this)

    Now Bro. Curtis, where do you find that the donkey spoke with the voice of a man?
     
  12. Bro. Curtis

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    2Peter 3:15 & 16

    Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
     
  13. menageriekeeper

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    Haha, I'm sure I have read that before and never noticed it. LOL

    Thanks!
     
  14. Bro. Curtis

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    No problem at all. [​IMG]

    The real fuuny thing is.....every fundy preacher I've ever talked to has said Balaam could not have been saved. I have disagreed with every one of them. A study of Balaam shows that the Holy Spirit was alive & well.
     
  15. Dr. Bob

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    22:35 "So Balaam went with the princes of Balak."

    Evidently they DID come. He doesn't go alone. God had said he could go if they came, and they did.
     
  16. Bro. Curtis

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    Duh :eek: How did I miss that ? I read those verses 30 times today. It's also in verse 20, he goes with tghe princes of Moab. Silly me ????!?!?!?

    Anyways, why, if he's following God's word, is his anger "kindled" against Balaam ? Verse 12 tells him not to go. But verse 20 tells him he can, then verse 22 God's all mad at him. There is a lot going on in those verses, eh ?

    But, chapter 22, verse 9 & 10, as you indicated, show a conversation between God and Balaam. Perhaps (another "duh") god uses Balaam in a test of Israel.

    Job 16:11 "11 God hath delivered me to the ungodly, and turned me over into the hands of the wicked."
     
  17. Marcia

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    I'm amazed you all think Balaam was an Israelite priest! He wasn't handpicked by God. He was a pagan seer who practiced divination (divination was his usual thing -- see Numb. 24.1).

    God did not put him "under a spell" but did cause Balaam to bless Israel even though he was trying to do otherwise. It was not Balaam's will to do this. In 24.13, Balaam says he can only say what God has him say. And he does not say he knows the Lord in 24.16 but says he is being given knowledge by God. Big difference.

    God gave Balaam His Spirit for prophecy temporarily, just as God did for Saul, but I do not think Saul was saved. It shows God can use anyone.
     
  18. James_Newman

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    that isn't what it said -

    Num 22:19 Now therefore, I pray you, tarry ye also here this night, that I may know what the LORD will say unto me more.
    Num 22:20 And God came unto Balaam at night, and said unto him, If the men come to call thee, rise up, and go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou do.
    Num 22:21 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.
    Num 22:22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.

    The men were already there when God gave him the commandment. God said that if they came to call him, to rise up and go with them. He rose up and left, God got angry. There is no mention that they came to call him, he just presumed to go. Probably set his alarm clock. Otherwise what cause could God possibly have to be angry with him? What lesson should we think to learn when God gets angry with us for obeying Him? How often in our own walk do we forget the ifs?
     
  19. Marcia

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    To answer the OP, no, I don't think Balaam was saved. Dr. Bob left out one important reference to Balaam, the one in 2 Peter where false teachers are being condemned:
    Here's an interesting link on archeological evidence for someone named Balaam, Son of Beor:
    http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-
    a014.html
     
  20. Bro. Curtis

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    "And Balaam said unto the angel of the LORD, I have sinned....."


    Sounds like me, when I got saved,
     

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