Was Christ Resurrected For The Ungodly?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I am looking for some help on this as if I am in error I welcome guidance.

    The scenario is this there is a resurrection of the just and unjust... The just to eternal life and the unjust to eternal damnation. I believe if I'm not deceived that the resurrection was for all Mankind otherwise there is no resurrection for either. Sheep are sheep and goats are goats and the blood only applies to Spiritual Israel. Same as the blood applied to natural Israel that was on the lintel post in Egypt when the death angel passed over. The saducees said there was no resurrection period. Paul in his address to the Corinthian brethren in chapter 15 nails the resurrection pardon the pun and definitely states what it is and what it is not... Comparing natural with spiritural and vicea versa... The question remains... Was Jesus Christ resurrected for the ungodly?... Brother Glen
     
  2. convicted1

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    Romans 4:25 says He was delivered for our offenses and raised for our justification. If He was resurrected for everyone, then you have a whole bunch of justified sinners in hell, no?
     
  3. robustheologian

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    I wouldn't say his resurrection was FOR the ungodly, but it definitely AFFECTED the ungodly. It made the gospel available (even if only to solidify their condemnation in rejecting it) and the resurrection made Jesus Lord of all—the living and the dead, the godly and ungodly (even though salvation is found in their believing that He is their Lord).
     
  4. convicted1

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    There would be no resurrection if Christ was not resurrected first.


    --And Jesus having again cried with a great voice, yielded the spirit; and lo, the vail of the sanctuary was rent in two from top unto bottom, and the earth did quake, and the rocks were rent, and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who have fallen asleep, arose, and having come forth out of the tombs after his rising, they went into the holy city, and appeared to many.(Mat. 27:50-53 YLT)
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    He was resurrected for the ungodly that were pronounced Justified at His resurrection Rom 4:25 !
     
  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I agree!... Who raises the unjust or ungodly?... Is there a twofold resurrection? How are they raised? Can help it I'm a hardsheller!... Brother Glen
     
  7. Reformed

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    Glenn, a simple answer to your question is this: if you are a Monergist the answer is "no". If you are a Synergist the answer is "yes".
     
  8. DHK

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    No, not at all. The "our" means the world.
    Why imply it refers to believers? If you are going to interpret it that way, then one might be justified in the interpretation that Paul is writing to the Romans and it applies only to the Romans and not to you at all.

    What about Psalm 23:1. "The Lord is my shepherd." Is the "Lord" only the shepherd of David? That is what it says, and according to the Calvinistic way of interpretation being espoused here that is what it must be limited to. He can't be your shepherd too, for that is not what David said.

    In Acts 20:28
    Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
    --Paul is speaking only to the church at Ephesus. He purchased the believers of the church of Ephesus with his own blood--no other church, no other believers, but them. It refers just to them. This verse was directed only to the Ephesian elders mentioned in verse 17:
    Act 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
    --It is not applicable to you.
    This is the Calvinistic method of interpretation.

    Thus when it comes to verses like John 3:16, where God so "loved the world" the "world" must not be the "world" in total, just like the Ephesian church can't represent other churches. You must be consistent in your interpretation. If the "world" must have a limited definition of the elect, then the Ephesian church must also have a limited definition, as also David's Lord in Psalm 23:1.

    But I am thankful that I am not constrained by such a limited interpretation of God's Word.

    Tell me, how many people does God love? How extensive is God's love?
    Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    --Sorry, he left you out. His love was limited to Paul alone. If he didn't love you, you are not one of the elect. This makes the case for election very easy. Paul is the only one--according to Calvinistic logic.

    Therefore:
    Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
    --Were many made sinners or were all made sinners?

    Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

    By the offence of one, were many dead or all dead?
    Likewise, did the grace of God which came by one man, was it available to many or to all?

    The answer is more clearly given:
    Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    --It simply must be received. All means all. It does not simply refer to the elect.

    The resurrection also if for all.
    1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
    --All died; all will be made alive; some to eternal life; others to eternal death.
     
  9. Jerome

    Jerome
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    "The sum of our Text is this—all the benefits resulting from the Redeemer’s Passion, and from all the works that followed upon it, are for those who, by nature, are ungodly. His Gospel is that sinners believing in Him are saved; His Sacrifice has put away sin from all who trust Him, and, therefore, it was offered for those who had sin upon them. “He rose again for our Justification,” but certainly not for the Justification of those who can be justified by their own works! He ascended on high, and we are told, He “received gifts for men, yes, for the rebellious, also.” He lives to intercede, and Isaiah tells us that, “He made intercession for the transgressors.”
    The aim of His death, Resurrection, Ascension, and Eternal Life is for the sinful sons of men; His death has brought God’s Pardon, but it cannot be pardon for those who have no sin—pardon is only for the guilty." —Charles Spurgeon, "For Whom Did Christ Die?"
     
  10. The Archangel

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    You really need to learn the difference between "Meaning" and "Application."

    The Archangel
     
  11. DHK

    DHK
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    I believe the Calvinist does also.
    The most popular and oft quoted verse in the world:

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    This very popular verse has a different meaning to a relatively few people (Calvinists) compared to the vast majority of Christians in the world. Why? They willy nilly change the definitions of words according to their own preconceived ideas born from Calvin.
    If they can do that here why not from Psalm 23:1, Acts 20:28, etc., as I have demonstrated. The answer: It would make a mockery of Biblical hermeneutics as you well know. The Calvinist is already mocking Biblical hermeneutics as there is absolutely nowhere in the entire Bible where the word "whosoever" requires the translation or rather the interpretation of "the elect"!
     
  12. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I'm just a simple brother that loves to study the scriptures... To me those are theological terms and strange to me... Please explain... Brother Glen
     
  13. Reformed

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    A Monergist is someone that believes God is sovereign in all aspects of salvation (predestination, election, calling, regeneration, justification). A Synergist believes that man cooperates with God in salvation. The Synergist believes in the foreseen faith view, that God looks down the corridor of time and elects those who choose Christ.
     
  14. steaver

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    Not quite accurate. Both believe God is sovereign in all aspects of salvation. And yes, elect according to the foreknowledge of God. It's not that God looks down through time , but rather God knows all things from before the foundation of the world.
     
  15. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    That's a no brainer as this is my favorite scripture in the bible.

    Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    It's ALL OF CHRIST... And none of me!... That's my doctrine... Brother Glen
     
  16. OldRegular

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    He was resurrected for the elect. But even the elect were at one time children of wrath by nature. I would call those people ungodly!

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  17. Reformed

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    Correct. Christ was raised for the Elect while they were still sinners. He was not raised for sinners who would/will die in their sins.
     
  18. convicted1

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    And if Christ had not been resurrected, then no one, saint or sinner, would be resurrected, either.
     
  19. OldRegular

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    If Jesus Christ had not been resurrected no one could be saved.

    1.The bodily resurrection is necessary to fulfill Old Testament prophecy and the promises of Jesus Christ.

    2.The bodily resurrection proves that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate God, that His death on the cross was indeed redemptive.

    3.The bodily resurrection is proof that Jesus Christ conquered death.

    4.The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is the guarantee of our bodily resurrection.

    Without the resurrection the cross is just another tragedy in a world full of tragedies and we are still in our sins and are of all people most miserable and deluded. {1 Corinthians 15:12-19}

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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Did his death and resurrection allow/provide for God to be able to extend temporal blessings unto even the unsaved, as in his goodness and mercies while in this life, and did provide for them to have a resurrection and to live on forever more still though?
     

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