Was it are wasn't it?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by mima, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. mima

    mima
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    Do you believe the witch of Endor conjured up the spirit of Samuel the profit? Or do you believe the witch conjured up a demonic spirit that pretended to be the spirit of Samuel the profit?
     
  2. Humblesmith

    Humblesmith
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    I don't think it was Samuel. The message that the spirit gave was nothing extraordinary.....all it said was that Saul would lose a battle, which anyone that took a look at the battlefield could have guessed. God would not have used a medium. The con-artist witch was surprised.....my vote is for a demon.
     
  3. donnA

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    Apparently she had never conjured up anything in the past, and was surprised anything happened this time, she was as fake as they come, just like all who do such pratices.
    Whether or not it was the real thing or a demon I don't know. I suspect humbesmith might be right.
     
  4. Andy T.

    Andy T.
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    Here is the passage:

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=9&chapter=28&version=47

    Taken at face value, the passage says that it was Samuel. It doesn't say that it was a facade of Samuel or a demon; it says it was Samuel. In addition, Samuel's statments in verses 15-19 repeat what Samuel had prophesied to Saul while he was still alive. Samuel was giving him the word of the Lord. I would hardly expect a demon to do such a thing. A demon would be more apt to tell lies or half-truths to Saul.

    So if we accept this as Samuel, we do have the conundrum of why God would work in this way with a medium. I admit, it is troubling at first glance. But notice that the medium herself is surprised when she sees Samuel - she may be surprised because this sort of thing has never happened to her - it is different. Therefore, we can say that God worked in this way in spite of the medium not because of her. She had no part in "bringing up Samuel"; it was the work of God.

    At least, that is one way of looking at it. It is a tough passage, and I think there are other valid intepretations, including even the demon theory.
     
  5. donnA

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    I guess God can work through anyone He wants, look at some of the others in scripture He worked through. Enemies of His people, people who did not know Him nor wanted to.
     
  6. mima

    mima
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    This question was posted because of the following statement in this passage. In Chapter 28:15. Samuel says to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? If Saul disquieted Samuel, then that means Samuel was at rest before the witch called him up. What is so interesting about all this is that we know all demons are disquieted at all times they never have rest. And so I wanted to post this question.
     
  7. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    If you look in other places, God often gives people what they want, even if it's not part of his perfect plan. For example, his perfect plan was for the children of Israel to eat manna. But, they whined and complained that they wanted meat, and he gave them quail; he gave it to them until it ran out their noses; it made them sick. (I think the same thing applies to tongues and other things that are not part of God's plan for today, but he lets them happen any way.)
     
  8. Brother Bob

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    He worked through Judas!!!
     
  9. Marcia

    Marcia
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    I believe it was Samuel. I talk on this topic quite a bit due to my ministry. I also think God brought up Samuel, not the medium.

    The reasons I think it was Samuel:
    1. The Bible says it was Samuel
    2. Samuel reprimanded Saul - a demon would not have done this, imo
    3. The medium was surprised to see Samuel - it was not normally what she saw
    4. Samuel gave the prediction that not only would Israel lose, but that Saul and his sons would die in battle. I don't think a demon (or Satan) can predict like this.

    I discuss this somewhat in my article on after-death communication, which was published a few years ago:
    "I See Dead People: A Look At After-Death Communication"
    http://www.equip.org/free/DD810.htm
     
  10. Andy T.

    Andy T.
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    Marcia,

    I agree with your analysis. That approach is the most straight-forward one to this passage.
     

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