Was Jesus born again in Sheol?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Aug 7, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    Many say that this is a Word of Faith teaching and that it's a heresy but what about these verses? :confused:

    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    The word which is used for quicken is this here:

    G2227
    ζωοποιέω
    zōopoieō
    dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
    From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken.

    Does this not mean he was made alive again? This would mean he was born again. I see no other interpretation to these verses.
     
  2. webdog

    webdog
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    This is talking about being risen from physical death, not "born again".
     
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    Jesus was the first person to be resurrected from the dead, never to die again.

    Many people in the bible were "raised from the dead" such as Lazarus and Jarius' daughter, but all of those miraculously raised from the dead....well, they eventually died again anyway.

    Jesus did NOT have to be born again. Jesus had no sin to repent from nor was anything about his spiritual nature in jeopardy of condemnation as it is with you and I in a "lost" state.

    Jesus was NEVER born again.
     
  4. bound

    bound
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    Grace and Peace,

    This is an interesting thread which has me curious.

    When you say that Jesus "had no sin to repent of" are you suggesting that He hadn't taken upon Himself the sin of the world?

    I'm not trying to put words in your mouth or anything. I'm simply seeking you to clarify your comments. Thanks.

    Peace and God Bless.
     
    #4 bound, Aug 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2006
  5. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    No.

    Jesus took upon Himself the sin of all mankind for all time. He was consciously aware of every sin that has been committed and that ever shall be committed. The bible says that He became sin for us.

    But as for any personal sin, Jesus had none. He had no sin nature to repent from.

    • Jesus didn't sin, so He was never born again.
    • Jesus died for our sin and was raised to life again.
    There's a BIG difference between those two statements that the original poster is blending together into one incorrect belief statement.
     
  6. bound

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    Grace and Peace,

    Great to hear! :thumbs:

    I agree with you whole heartedly. So do you believe it was in Sheol that He descended upon His Death to Preach the Good News?

    What is your take on the posters original question?

    Peace and God Bless.
     
  7. LeBuick

    LeBuick
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    Yes, he released the captive souls. Preaching is the foolishness chosen by God whereby men might be saved.

    Scarlett, I agree Jesus was not born again as part of his ressurection, but what about when he was baptized. Was this not his very teaching to Nicodemus?

    Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
     
  8. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    Hmmmm....
    But I have a few questions.
    Jesus says on the cross "why have you forsaken me?" IF we interpret this in the way that Jesus was separated from God when he was on the cross because of all the sins which we had upon himself then this means that Jesus died spiritually because separation from God = spiritual death and if he died spiritually then he also needed to get born again. This is basically the argument.
    Now what about Jesus saying why have you forsaken me?
    Why did he say this?
    And what I also ask myself is did Jesus not have to reverse everything? He became poor so we can be rich, he became sick so we can be healed and so on and doesn't this mean that he also had to be separated from God in order for us to be united with God again?

    Look at this here. What about this? It fits together pretty well.

    Derek Prince said that the gospels do not say much about what happened after Jesus died on the cross, but he said that the psalms describe what happened after Jesus' spirit had left his body and went down to Sheol.
    Prince also adds that Sheol is not Gehenna and not the lake of fire.

    Leviticus 16

    5 And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.
    6 And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.
    7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
    8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
    9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
    10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

    Prince said we have 2 goats here. 1 goat is sacrificed, the other one is identified with the sin of Israel and then led into the wilderness. Prince says that what happens to this scapegoat also happened to Jesus' spirit after he died on the cross. The scapegoat stands for Jesus' spirit.
    The bible says "wilderness" but Prince said that in hebrew it's not wilderness but a land of separation, this means separation from God. Jesus was separated from God.

    20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:
    21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
    22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

    Here we can see how the living goat was identified with the sin.

    Now let's look at psalm 16.
    Prince says that even though this is a psalm from David and even though David seems to be talking of himself cause he says I, that this does not apply to David himself.This can also be seen on psalm 22 where it says >18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.< so you see just because David seems to be talking of himself does not mean this applies to him.

    8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
    9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
    10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

    And you can see this here:
    David wrote about what would happen to Jesus.

    Acts 2


    22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
    23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
    24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
    25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
    27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
    29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
    31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    David talked about Jesus. He says that Jesus was neither left in Hades nor did his flesh decay. Both of these things came true.

    Now look at this:

    1.Peter 3

    18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit

    19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

    What do we see here?
    The bible says Jesus was quickened by the spirit!
    And it also says Jesus preached to the spirit in prison, meaning the spirits in Sheol.

    And Prince says that spirit in verse 18 does not mean the holy spirit, but Jesus' spirit! This means Jesus' spirit was revived before he came back from Sheol.

    When Jesus preached to the spirits of the disobedient he basically told them that he has the authority now and that he has the keys to Sheol.

    Now let's look at psalm 71. Another psalm from David where David is talking about Jesus.

    20 Thou, which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.

    So we see there is an order:

    1) quicken
    2) bring up from the depths of the earth


    Now let's look at psalm 88.

    Prince says that psalm 88 describes Jesus' experience as scapegoat while he was in Hades!

    3 For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.

    >This describes how tormented Jesus is and that he is nigh unto grave, this means he is near to Hades.

    4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:

    >This describes that Jesus is separated from God.

    6 You have put me in the lowest pit, in the darkest depths.

    >This describes the different levels of Sheol. And Jesus was on the lowest level, in the abyss. Jesus was into the total darkness.

    7 Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.
    8 Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth.


    Jesus was separated from the jews as a one who got crucified cause everybody who is crucified is made a curse and unclean. Verse 8 describes this.

    >In verse 10-12 David asks questions. Can this really be? And the answer is yes. All of this really happened to Jesus.

    10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
    11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
    12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?


    >Jesus fulfilled everything.He went to Sheol and preached to the dead >and his wonders became known in the dark.

    >Morning in verse 13 describes the morning of the resurrection.

    13 But unto thee have I cried, O LORD; and in the morning shall my prayer prevent thee.

    >Verse 14 describes Jesus separation from God. Jesus was made sin because of our sins and this is why God could not look at him.

    14 LORD, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me?

    >Verse 15 describes how the shadow of the cross has been upon Jesus since his youth. Jesus knew what was going to happen. Prince also says that very few people have a clue of what God's terror really is. He said that he has dealt with a few people which had tasted a little bit of God's terror and he said that these people are in psychiatric wards now.
    So basically one terror after the other rolled over Jesus like giant waves.

    15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up: while I suffer thy terrors I am distracted.

    >Verse 18 once again demonstrates Jesus' separation from God and his friends.

    18 Lover and friend hast thou put far from me, and mine acquaintance into darkness.

    Now let's look at John 18:11

    Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

    Prince says that Jesus drunk the cup until the last drop and that the cross was not the end of Jesus' suffering.The worst came after Jesus' physical death.
     

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