Was Jesus Christ Born With A Sin Nature?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by jasonlevene, Aug 27, 2005.

  1. jasonlevene

    jasonlevene
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    Now before you say 'No that is blasphemy! Jesus was no sinner', consider these following notes:

    1. According to definition of 'sin' in James 1:14-15, a man is enticed and drawn away by his own lust and when that lust has conceived, it brings forth sin and death. Now by this definition, Adam and Eve sinned because they were drawn away by their own lusts (their desires to be like God in knowing good and evil) which thus conceived and brought forth sin and death [eating of tree of knowledge). 1 John 2:16 defines in clear detail the worldly 'sinful nature' lusts for evil that drove Eve to crave the tree of knowledge fruit:

    Genesis 3:5-6 - For God knows that in the day you eat of the tree of knowledge, then your eyes shall be opened and you shall be as gods knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof and did eat...

    1 John 2:16 - For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life is not of the Father but is of this world.

    The sin nature thus does not render one a sinner...gratifying the evil desires of the sin nature renders one a 'sinner'.

    2. Jesus asked God the Father in Gethsemane to 'take the cup of wrath away from him'. Now consider that if his request had been granted, then there would have been no cross to fulfill the messianic prophecies in Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22. God would have thus been a liar and his deity nullified. Jesus' request was thus clearly driven by his own sin nature/desire for evil which he overcame by declaring that there was no other way for him but to fulfill the Father's will and drink of the cup of wrath (Matthew 26:42). In this way, he never allowed his 'worldly' desire for evil to conceive (James 1:14-15) and thus never sinned.

    What do you all think?
     
  2. donnA

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  3. StefanM

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    I think your analysis of the Gethsemane prayer is flawed. His entire prayer expressed submission to the will of the Father. Obviously, Jesus wasn't going to jump for joy that he was going to bear the sins of the world, but his prayer was not, IMO, motivated by evil/sinful nature or desire.
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    If He had a sin nature He was not qualified to take away the sins of the world.
     
  5. Helen

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    Paul tells us in Romans that Jesus was the last Adam, in contrast to the first Adam. This may be (at least in part) reference to Jesus having a perfect human nature, the way Adam's was originally. He was able to make choices and therefore potentially able to sin, but chose to be perfectly obedient to the Father and therefore never sinned and also never aquired a sin nature. Adam had chosen to disobey and thereby aquired a sin nature, which he then passed down to the rest of us.
     
  6. Gib

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    How could he have had a sin nature and be sinless? He couldn't.
     
  7. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    ABSOLUTELY NO!!!!!He was God before the foundation of the world....God the Son...without SIN or the ability or nature to do so.He was and is the Lamb of God...perfect,sinless,without spot or blemish....again...ABSOLUTELY NO.Any suggestion otherwise comes straight from the mouth of the wicked god of this world who hates our PERFECT Saviour.

    Greg Sr.
     
  8. Craigbythesea

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    Having a sin nature would not necessarily guarantee than a man would sin—it would simply mean that he had a disposition toward sinning. For example, an alcoholic may have a disposition toward drinking alcoholic beverages but he still has a choice of whether to drink or not. Jesus, therefore, could have had a disposition toward sin without having ever given into temptation.

    Adam, however, was tempted to sin, and after he sinned, something about him changed to where he had a disposition toward sinning and everyone born after him inherited this disposition because they sinned in Adam.

    Rom. 5:12. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
    13. for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

    Jesus, however, was an exception, and the only exception, because He did not sin in Adam and whatever happened to Adam that gave him a disposition to sin after his initial sin did not happen to Jesus because he never sinned. I believe that Jesus was born with the same human nature as Adam was before his initial sin and could have sinned but chose not to because He loved his Father and He chose, therefore, to submit to Him and His will. This is a subject, however, upon which theologians have very strong and conflicting opinions and at no time in Church history do we find a consensus of opinion. I chose not to debate this topic on this message board, so I will not be defending my view against those who disagree with me.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Sularis

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    Yes would be better to reference that Jesus was tempted - and then access the definition of temptation in the Bible
     
  10. jasonlevene

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    If Jesus' request in Gethsemane had been granted and the cup was taken from him, then there would have been no cross to fulfill the Scriptures and that would have nullified the deity of YHWH.
     
  11. jasonlevene

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    The sin nature does not render one a sinner...succumbing to the sin nature renders one a sinner. James 1:14-15 confirms that one becomes a sinner when his evil lust conceives. That evil lust is the sin nature. Adam and Eve by this defintion sinned when their evil lusts [the sin nature] conceived. Take a look at 1 John 2:16 and Genesis 3:6 to see the correlation.
     
  12. jasonlevene

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    For years I was plagued by the question: if we sin because we inherit the sin nature, then why did Adam and Eve sin? Little did I know the answer was always right there in the Genesis Eve/serpent account. Eve sinned because she wanted to be like God in knowing good and evil. That's why she saw the tree of knowledge fruit as 'deadly' in Genesis 3:3 yet 'desirable' in Genesis 3:6. Satan's lie became the truth and God's truth became a lie. 1 John 2:16 defines the worldly sinful lusts behind Eve's craving of the tree of knowledge fruit.

    So what was the curse of death then that Jesus redeemed us from?

    Mortal literal death. For the full explanation, go to:

    Adam and Eve: The Birth of the Sin Nature
     
  13. JackRUS

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    I agree with Graig's choice of Scripture concerning Adam's passing on the sin nature in Romans 5:14, and this is also reiterated by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:20-22.

    But I must say that I am am somewhat agast that no one here has mentioned the fact yet that Jesus' Father was not a human father, but rather God Himself, so that Jesus did not have a sin nature.

    I also disagree with Jason on his statement in this context of sin nature:
    David wrote this by the Holy Spirit:

    "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." Ps. 51:5

    Adam and Eve did not start out with a sin nature though, but when they fell they passed on this nature to all their decendents throughout history as is clearly stated in Romans 5 and 1 Cor. 15. That is why we can also have Jesus as our federal head to render to all His imputed righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21) through one's faith and trust in His finished work on the cross.
     
  14. jasonlevene

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    The sin nature is not inherited...it was/is inherent within humanity itself. According to sin's definition in James 1:14-15, one's lust for evil must conceive and that lust for evil is the sin nature. 1 John 2:16 defines Eve's lust for evil behind her craving of the tree of knowwledge (Genesis 3:6). Now as Eve did not inherit her sin nature, where did her lust for evil come from?


    David wrote this by the Holy Spirit:

    "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." Ps. 51:5
    </font>[/QUOTE]Romans 3:23-For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

    We were all destined to sin -Adam and Eve included- because only Jesus as God was unable to sin. YOu see I do not believe that God created Adam and Eve to live forever on the earth. I believe that their purpose was to establish the penalty for sin -literal mortal death- so that we would understand Jesus' reward of raising himself in immortality for rejecting his sin nature. In other words, just as God built up the Egyptians to make his name and power known to his people, he condemned all of us to mortal death to make the resurrected immortal Jesus [and the Church] known throughout the world.

    So in this way, we are all mortally condemned in Adam.

    Adam and Eve: The Birth of The Sin Nature
     
  15. Philip Walls

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    So, you believe that god created Adam so he would sin? You believe that God created Adam as a flawed being (destined to sin and die)? You believe that God created Adam so he could sin and then God could sacrifice His Son for that sin?

    I can't see that. I believe God created Adam as a perfect man. That had he chose to not sin, he would still be alive today and Jesus would not have had to come to earth. Instead, Adam did sin, he did become mortal and Jesus had to save us from that sin.
     
  16. jasonlevene

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    1 Peter 1:20 - Who [Jesus] was foreordained before the foundation of the world but was manifest in these last times for you...

    Now in order for Jesus to have been foreordained before the foundation of the world,then that would have to mean that the sin of Adam and Eve was already an afterthought before the pair were even created.

    And let's not forget that sinlessness is an attribute of deity so Adam and Eve were going to sin eventually.

    And let me ask you this...in what way did Adam become mortal as a result of his sin? God commanded both Adam and Eve to multiply before their sin so there must've been a mortal aging process already inherent in Adam and Eve.

    In case you're wondering, I believe in conditional immortality: or the belief that only the righteous are to inherit immortality/eternal life. My site explains it all.

    http://www.jasonlevene.com/questions.htm
     
  17. JackRUS

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    Jason, I'm wondering...
    are you one of these righteous few, and how did you acquire your righteousness?

    And how long do you expect to live in your present physical body here on Earth?

    I mean without having to read your entire web site for an answer.

    A side note here. If Jason's a Baptist...I'm a canary.
     
  18. buckster75

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    choice is what led to the sin. being tempted and falling into the temptation. if Jesus was tempted in the way we are tempted (I think scripture says he was) yet He chose not to sin. can we separate sin nature from the nature to be tempted?
     
  19. Artimaeus

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    Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    Is this the nature that Christ had? Why is this even being seriously discussed?
     
  20. JackRUS

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    If you read Jason's web site you would know why he is. But why are we?
     

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