Was John Calvin saved?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Plain Old Bill, Apr 4, 2007.

  1. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not trying to be mean but you guys got me started reading all kinds of Calvin's writings and I can't find anything with his testimony of how he came to know Christ as his personal Lord and Savior. Does anybody have anything to help out here?:godisgood: I gues that would also beg the question , was Calvin saved?
     
  2. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    ==Don't know, but I suppose we will find out one day.
     
  3. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm certain of that Martin. It's just that with all of the writing Calvin did it strikes me odd that I hear no personal writing of his salvation experience.I am interested to know if anyone knows of any such thing in wrting.:godisgood:
     
  4. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know so I'm asking.... did Augustine give his personal salvation testimony? How about many of the other great theologians? Maybe they didn't think that their own testimonies meant anything? I know my personal testimony means a lot to me.... and that is why i'm so strongly calvinist. It is because of His Sovereign grace that i'm saved.... and if I can be saved... anyone can be.
     
  5. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    A good question.:godisgood:
     
  6. Brandon C. Jones

    Brandon C. Jones
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    0
    Augustine's conversion is quite famous in his "Confessions" although it was probably dramatized just a tad by him.

    John Calvin was not unique and was part of a larger movement, and there is a paucity of these testimonies from this period and earlier. I don't know if you'll find an account of his conversion but the first place to look would be his sermons.

    Who cares?

    What is the infatuation with John Calvin's salvation on this board lately? Is there something in the water?
     
  7. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is how it started with me: I have been a part of the calvinists debates up until about 6 months ago when I was challenged to read calvin. So I have read "the Institutes" and some of calvins commentaries but have'nt found any of his sermons. Then as I would peek in from time to time I saw the subject come up. So I thought as many calvinists as there are on this board at least one should be able to provide me with a resource so I could read John Calvins' testimony.I think that would be a blessing.:godisgood:
     
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    That seems like an odd statement if you're a Calvinist. According to Calvinism, NOT anyone can be saved.
     
  9. Brandon C. Jones

    Brandon C. Jones
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fair enough Bill, but the lack of one demonstrates the lack of John Calvin's personal influence in what is known as calvinism, especially on Baptists today. I do encourage you to read Calvin's writings, and use good secondary sources like Muller and Steinmetz to help you read him objectively, which is a difficult task.

    If more and more posters here continue asking about his salvation, perhaps it's worth it to come up with the "evidence." :laugh: I'm only a few hundred feet away from the Meeter Center, so if such evidence exists, then it's not that far away from me.

    BJ
     
  10. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Proof please?

    For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
     
  11. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with this verse, but I thought according to Calvinism, God already chose the elect before they had a chance to believe. :confused:
     
  12. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    0
    According to the Bible God chose the elect before they were born..... does that count? Eph 1:4-5

    Whosoever believes savingly are the elect. The non elect can not do so. When I say that if I can be saved, anyone can be.... I'm saying that it does not matter what a person has done....... they can be saved if they believe in a saving way... (born again). Hope this helps.
     
  13. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, that helps. Thanks.
     
  14. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    ==Sorry, can't be of any help. If you have read Calvin's Institutes then you are much more educated on Calvin than I am. I might could help you on Luther, Wesley, or someone like that but I will be of no help on Calvin.
     
  15. amity

    amity
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can't think of any of Calvin's writing that was personal, actually. Maybe he was just a very private guy! Why would this cast doubt upon his salvation? Most of the believers I have the utmost respect for have never revealed this sort of intimate info, not to me, anyway.
     
  16. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    two thoughts on this:

    1. I've read the Institutes and you can't leave those texts without believing that the writer (Jean Calvin) is saved. His words and Scriptural exegesis are too finely pointed to have a veil over his eyes.

    2. The following phrase:

    Didn't exist in Christianity until the late 1800s. Therefore while Calvin does have testimony of salvation, he won't express it like you or I.

    (For what it's worth Augustine is very direct about his conversion. "Take and read!" is a powerful little line.)
     
  17. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't you feel every believer should have an experience when they came to Christ?
    I say this because a John Macarthur once stated along the lines that he cant' recall a time in his life when he wasn't saved. This sounds like he believes he was born saved. I have to question this line of thinking, and I would hope every child of God would.
    I have Macarthur's study Bible, and he is very knowledgeable when it comes to Scripture. I just pray that he and Calvin won't stand before God withGod saying "I never knew you". Our testimony is the most powerful tool we have in spreading the Gospel. Never stating it publicly throws up red flags IMO.
     
  18. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    ==I agree but some believers don't recall an exact moment. This could be because they were saved at a very young age or it could be because they went through the "process" (sinners prayer, etc) several times and they are not really sure which time was "real". This latter situation exists, in my opinion, because of false doctrine that focuses on feelings and "processes" instead of a relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not against using the sinner's prayer (etc) but I do think there is a danger of focusing too much on the process and not enough on the relationship aspect of salvation. In my view it does not matter if a person can point to an exact day/hour (etc) when they "accepted Christ". What matters is that they had such a day/hour and that they know they had such because they current have an active relationship with the Lord Jesus (1Jn 5:13). If a person does not have a relationship with Christ, it does not matter how many times they have been through a process, they are still lost. A person who has a relationship with Christ is saved even if they can't remember the day/hour they accepted Christ.

    ==I have never heard MacArthur make that kind of statement before. Considering his theology/teaching whatever he said does not mean he believes he was "born saved". What he may have been saying, or trying to say, was that he does not recall the day/hour he was saved. I have an interview that was recorded with MacArthur several years ago in which he talks about his salvation (etc). I will try to go back and listen to that tape again this weekend and see if he states when he was saved.

    ==Knowing a day/hour is not a testimony. A proper testimony is a person who has an active relationship with Jesus Christ and can tell people what wonderful changes Christ has done in their lives.
     
  19. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    0
    A very good friend and great teacher has the same testimony of his salvation experience. He was born and bred in church..... (figure of speech). One day he simply learned that he was saved... at quite an early age. Everyone's salvation experience is different. Mine was quite remarkable with much emotion. I had been drawn to Jesus for a long time, but never felt that I could be saved... I knew my innermost heart. When I learned of God's sovereign grace, and His choosing me before the foundation of the world, and the fact that Jesus died for me just as I was, it broke my heart that He would do what He did, while I was still self absorbed, and really against Him. I was born again of the Spirit and it was so emotional that I could not hold back the tears. I was in a class with about half a dozen other preachers.... and although I felt embarrased, the feeling of the reality of my sin, and the great sacrifice of Jesus was overwhelming. It would be easy for me to say that if you have not had that kind of experience, then maybe you are not saved. Where do we draw the line? If someone's experience was not like mine are they saved? Do they have to have a testimony? I don't think so... and I pray that I never judge someone about such a thing as a salvation experience.
    By the way........ Good morning brother!
     
  20. Andy T.

    Andy T.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, the most powerful tool we have in spreading the Gospel is the Word of God.

    I am not willing to judge someone merely because they haven't expressed themselves in post-18th century Christian-eze jargon that they have "accepted Jesus into their heart". If a man tells me that he currently has faith in Christ alone for the fogiveness of his sins, then that is enough for me. It may be that he came to believe at a very young age and the memory is foggy (not everyone has a steel trap memory of their youth). And I don't limit God in saving people through other ways that are not in line with revialistic American conversion experiences.

    We also need to remember that when we read a book by someone, we are only getting a glimpse of that person. We don't know them. We haven't sat down with them and discussed their "experience". Some books may discuss those issues, while others are not intended to.
     

Share This Page

Loading...