Was Judas ever saved

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Kay, Aug 21, 2007.

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  1. Kay

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    Was Judas ever saved? Can you explain why or why not and provide scripture to show your view?
    Thank you
     
  2. SBCPreacher

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    Here's what I think.

    Matthew 26:
    21 Now as they were eating, He said, “Assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me.”
    22 And they were exceedingly sorrowful, and each of them began to say to Him, “Lord, is it I?
    23 He answered and said, “He who dipped his hand with Me in the dish will betray Me.
    24 “The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”
    25 Then Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, “Rabbi, is it I?” He said to him, “You have said it.”

    When Jesus announced to the 12 that he was going to be betrayed, the other 11 asked "Lord, is it I." That's because Jesus was their Lord. Judas asked, "Rabbi, is it I?" That's because Jesus was not his Lord. Either knowingly or unknowingly, Satan was his lord. Jesus was only his teacher.

    Just my opinion.

    By the way, welcome to the BB!
     
  3. Accountable

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    Kay, For some reason or another, fundamentalists are afraid to be fundamental about this particular issue when they Bible speaks plainly about it.

    To start, Judas was called by Jesus and He followed. To cut to the chase, nobody has any reason to believe he isn't saved till, as some would use this, he sells out for the silver. If you will remember there is a type of this in the O.T.
    Joseph, a type of Christ, was sold by His brothers for silver. Particularly it was Juah who chose to do this. Judas is the Greek name for Judah by many accounts.
    Anyway, Judah was still part of the family, and in the end, had the rulership as found at the death bed of Jacob, His father.

    One of the scriptures I would use to prove Judas was saved would be this one, as spoken at the Last Supper where ALL TWELVE were present and as Jesus spoke to the TWELVE.

    Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
    Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Are we to truly believe that Jesus was not speaking to Judas as we see he was there and still part of the twelve? To believe this would be stretching scripture and couldn't in anyway be fundamental.

    Hope this helps. I would be glad to how other scriptures too but we will start with this.
     
  4. lbaker

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    Okay, but first I have to qualify it by stating the obvious - only Judas and God know for sure.

    I think he was, as a sincere follower of Christ at one time.

    From Matthew 10:
    1He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
    2These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

    I really wonder if Judas would have been able to work the miracles if he was an unbeliever.

    From Matthew 19:
    28Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Sounds like Judas was still a member in good standing of the Twelve at this point since twelve thrones are mentioned.

    Of course he later turned against Jesus because of anger, or jealousy, or frustration, or greed - we really don't know for sure what his reasons were. Was he lost at this point, having renounced Jesus as the Savior Messiah? I don't know. He did seem to show remorse afterwards. Maybe he repented and was restored, maybe not. Again, I don't know.

    Les
     
    #4 lbaker, Aug 21, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2007
  5. ReformedBaptist

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    No. John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

    Perdition: apoleia, GR. utter destruction, as of vessels.

    John 6:64 "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."

    Judas is meant here as shown clearly from v 70 and 71:

    "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
    He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve."

    Jesus calls Judas a diablos, a false acuser, a slanderer.

    Sons of God are not sons of perdition, or destruction as it were, a vessel of wrath.
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

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    Pay no attention to the one who claimed Judas was saved. He has not studied the Scriptures thoroughly regarding the matter.

    As Reformed pointed out, Judas was the son of perdition. Another pointed out that Judas did not call Jesus Lord, but only recognized Him as a teacher.

    Judas was not saved. Plain and simple.
     
  7. lbaker

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    Well this may be a first for BB, but it looks like I may have to change what I said earlier about Judas.

    The passage in John sure makes it sound like Jesus is referring to Judas as an unbeliever. If that is the case then he never was saved in the first place.

    That does make me wonder how he was able to work miracles though.

    Wish I had thought of that passage in John before I posted.

    Les
     
  8. standingfirminChrist

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    lbaker,

    Can you show me a verse in the Bible that says that Judas did indeed work miracles?
     
  9. npetreley

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    It's not a first, but it is rare. Having said that, I've had to change my stand on a number of issues thanks to good points made on BB. God bless you for being open to change!
     
  10. lbaker

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    Sure.

    1He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
    2These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

    5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons.
     
  11. ReformedBaptist

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    Excellent. That is amazing. Does this Scripture help shed light on this aspect of the question:

    "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt 7:21-23

    Now we could take this as these workers of iniquity performed real miracles, or else, false ones with all manner of lying wonders as the wicked one. 2 Thess 2:9
    "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"

    I am inclined to the latter...
     
  12. standingfirminChrist

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    I do not see anything in that verse that says Judas actually performed any miracles.

    Judas was with the other disciples, yes, and Christ apparently gave him some authority. But where is it recorded that Judas actually exercised that authority?

    I am inclined to believe that Judas never exercised that authority. Why?

    And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? (Matthew 12:25-26)

    Judas chose not to exercise that authority for if he did, his true lord would not stand.
     
    #12 standingfirminChrist, Aug 21, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2007
  13. ReformedBaptist

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    Actually, I am going to retract this. If Judas did indeed perform any miracle, it was because Jesus gave him the authority to do it, and thus would NOT be a lying wonder or work of satan.
     
  14. Kay

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    Can you explain this verse please

    What did Judas fall from?

    Acts 1:25 25to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs."

    Someone told me that meant he fell from salvation.
    Thanks
     
  15. lbaker

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    Surely it would have been recorded somewhere if Judas was the only one of the twelve who didn't work miracles?

    The fact that Jesus did give Judas the same authority and orders that He gave the other eleven, with no passage to indicate otherwise, lends credibility to the idea that Judas did indeed work miracles just like the others.

    Without a passage that clearly indicates Judas didn't work miracles, we can't really say with authority that he didn't.

    Les
     
  16. standingfirminChrist

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    Nor can we say with authority that Judas did work miracles without any passages that show he did.

    Actually, there is no evidence that the disciples performed any miracles until after the ascension of Christ.
     
  17. ReformedBaptist

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    Hey Kay,

    Judas fell from the appoint to his office as an apostle.

    Acts 1:20 "For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take."
     
  18. ReformedBaptist

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    Luke 10:17 ?

    "And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name."
     
  19. npetreley

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    Why does it matter if Judas worked any miracles? We can't know for sure, and even if we could say he did, we can't know for sure whether it was by the temporary authority of Christ, permanent authority of Christ, or by the authority of satan. So what's the point?
     
  20. standingfirminChrist

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    They affirmed that the devils were subject to them for Jesus had told them so. But is there evidence that they actually exercised this authority? I can't find it.

    Is there evidence of a miracle performed by the twelve?
     
    #20 standingfirminChrist, Aug 21, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2007
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