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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Kay, Aug 27, 2007.
He was called as a disciple of Christ.
He was appointed as an Apostle by Christ in Matthew 10. But he was not saved. He was the son of perdition.
( Quoting from the NIV )
Jesus had many so-called diciples who were not saved . See John 6:66 for example : From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him .
Or , look at 1 John 2:19 : They went out from us , but they did not really belong to us . For if they had belonged to us , they would have remained with us ; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us .
Acts 1:25 : ... Judas left to go where he belongs
John 17:12 : ... the one doomed to destruction
Verdict : Judas was a reprobate . He joined the ranks of Pharaoh , Esau , Cain , Demas et cetera .
The Judas story has always intrigued me. Was Judas saved? I try and keep in mind that Judas ended his life prior to Jesus’ redemptive work on Calvary, so I try and disconnect my self from the Baptist method of being “saved”. Judas was indeed a Disciple; one of the 12 hand picked Disciples chosen by Christ Himself, not just some “groupie” following Christ in a crowd. Jesus gave the 12 power to, but not limited to, healing the sick.
With that I believe that Judas did in fact believe that Jesus was the Son of God; only Judas was looking for more than what Jesus came to do, especially in the time of the harsh Roman rule over the Jews. Maybe Judas thought that turning Jesus in might “kick start” a rebellion. In any event, God knew the heart of Judas, picked Judas to accomplish His will. Christ had to die to fulfill the scriptures and in order to accomplish Gods plan, someone had to betray Christ and Judas was that person.
I like to believe that since Judas felt remorse from what he had done and gave the money back that he repented of his sin of betraying innocent blood, before the guilt got so burdensome that he took his own life. Since Scripture is silent other than him taking his own life, I’ll leave the judging to the One whose job it is to Judge.
God's Word has already judged him lost.
Correct. So, was Judas saved at the first place?
Rev. 22:20 1 Amen!
I don't know
I am a new Christian and full of questions. Judas does call Jesus Rabbi or master.? It would be helpful to me if you could explain in the scriptures how you determine he was not saved from the start?
It seems Judas had his own place is all I have. I read it that it must of already been his place but maybe it meant after his fall, I doubt it for I believe he was already a servant of the devil.
Judas was never saved. He was the son of perdition (destruction)(John 17:12). He was a thief who kept the purse (John 12:6). Although He recognized Jesus as Master (teacher)(Matt. 26:25), he never recognized Him as Lord.
Judas was recognized early as 'a devil' early in his walk with Jesus (Joh 6:70).
Judas never was saved. Jesus knew what was in his heart.
But doesn't Master (teacher) mean the same as Lord?
"That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place." Acts 1:25. This verse clearly tells us that Judas was an apostle; that he committed a transgression; and that by his transgression HE FELL. To fall means to descend rapidly from a high place to a low place. Yes, if we believe Acts 1:25 to be true, there is no doubt that Judas was at one time saved. At some point, he turned away from his Lord and he fell. Fell from what? From grace of course. So as surely as he was once saved at the beginning of his ministry, he was also not saved at the end.
How can you be sure that Judas was never saved in the first place, when he was called by Christ to be one of the 12 disciples? Before Christ called Judas, He already know Judas will betryal him. Christ did command them (12 disciples) to healing them and did miracles. I am sure that Judas was invloved with them. Also, I believe Judas was the truly disciple before he fall.
Notice, Christ said, "MANY was called, but few chosen." - Matt. 22:14.
Judas was called in the first place, but afterward at end of his life, he fall, and he is not chosen.
Many people who were 'called' at the beginning of salvation, once, they enter into the narrow road, but afterward, they turn away and stopped follow Christ, at end of their life, they are not 'chosen', many are ended in everlasting fire.
Clear, in the Bible teaching us salvation is conditional base upon our freewill and decision.
Luke 15:11-32 is a perfect example of salvation, the prodigal son left his father and become dead and lost. If suppose, a son never return back to his father, then, he would always be remain dead and lost(spiritual) is lost. Means his spiritual is lost- salvation.
If a person turn back to God, and repent of sins, then person is alive AGAIN.
Clear, the Bible teaches us salvation is conditional.
Yes, I believe the Bible telling us, Judas is already lost forever and ever, he is now in hell.
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
No, Master is not the same as Lord.
Master was a term for teacher
Lord is one who rules over you.
Judas would not allow Jesus rule over him
Judas never was saved. He was the son of perdition.
God uses many to do His work, DPT. He used a donkey to get the message across to Baalam. Was that donkey saved? Was Peter's rooster saved? Both did a work for God.
Even Pharaoh was used by God. God hardened his heart so he would let the Israelites go. God used Jezebel, Ahab, and many others. Surely you don't believe they too were saved?
1. How can we maintain that Judas was saved when Jesus says, ""I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; while I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled. (John 17:9, 12, NASB)
2. Jesus neither interceded nor mediated for Judas, so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled.
I ask you of Judas as human being, not animals. Animals have no soul, you know that.
Yes, Judas was saved at the first place, because he was 'called', but later afterward he fall by betryal Christ, he died and go to hell.
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Christ already know Judas is the son of perdition before He called Judas for the purpose of Calvary.
Christ doesn't force Judas to do something. Christ allowed him to do something by betrayal him.
Judas made his own choice and decision, he went to hell.
Judas could have been saved, if he don't betrayal Christ.
Christ never made mistake for choose Judas to be his discipled. Christ has his purpose and plan. Because of Calvary. When Christ choose Judas at the beginning, He already know Judas will turn away from the Lord three years later and betrayal him and then hanged himself to death. Judas was a truly disciple and apostle at the first place, but, later he betryaed Christ, and commit suicide himself to death is lost and now in hell forever and ever.
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Jesus kept all that the Father had given Him. He did not keep Judas because Judas heart was not of Him.
Judas had a thief's heart. He did not call Christ Lord as the others did. Judas, as the son of perdition was not saved.