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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Sunnydays, Dec 12, 2005.
Why and why not?
I don't believe God would allow an unbeliever to write Scripture.
Also we know of his continued belief in God, even after his wives lead him astray and persuaded him to allow altars to foriegn gods.
In the end though, Solomon saw all the wrong he had done summed up the whole duty of man:
For the same reasons as listed by ifbreformer.
I agree so far. any arguements from those who believe that Solomon wasn't saved I heard this last night at bible study, that Solomon was so far gone he wasn't really saved. I believe he was for the same reasons mentioned above.
That sounds like the teachings of those who say that faith produces works, so works are required to be saved.
If Solomon didn't go through all the things he did, we would not have some of those Books we turn to for answers. This man was saved. He was going through his life just as God had planned.
Faith does produce works. James 2:18 says, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."
So faith does produce works, not as a means to salvation but we do works because we are saved.
When did Solomon hear the name of Jesus?
I agree that we should do works because we're saved, but it's not a requirement for common salvation. Otherwise, it would be a salvatino by works. (If you have to perform works to prove that you're saved, it's works just as much as doing good works to earn your salvation.)
James is the book for the salvation of the soul. Hence, good works enter into the equation.
The question is when did Solomon hear the voice of His Shepherd?
We don't know, but to think he was unsaved and to teach he was 'so' far gone that he couldn't have been saved is a stretch for a Bible Study.
Did Solomon not have any works that evidenced his faith?
How far out of the hand can a child of God go, especially since no man can pluck any one of them out of His hand? Would this also not mean one that strays by their own doing?
Solomon was under the old Covenant, and God said that he/she who was righteous but turned to sin & died in sin was lost, while He also said that the sinner who turns to righteousness will be saved, same as we are today. In summary, God said that under the OC, a person's relationship with Him AT DEATH determined their status in the hereafter.
Now, what did it appear Solomon was doing in the last years of his life? He was seeking the life of Jeroboam, whom God had chosen to replace him. Does THAT sound like the actions of a righteous man?
Remember, under the OC, both HEART and WORKS, especially careful obedience to God's ordinances, were His standards for righteousness. I would hafta say that Solomon remained in sin, since Scripture doesn't say otherwise, but I'm glad GOD is the final Judge of every soul through His son Jesus.
Olive Branch, that is one of the most heretical and stupidest comments I have ever heard/read! He was going through his life just as God had planned? Are you stating that God predestines man to sin?! That is heresy, this is the most idiotic hyper Calvinist statement I have ever heard in my life.
Hey, tell us what you really think!
Seriously, it's impossible to know for certain whether Solomon was saved. A similar case is another king of Judah, Asa. Early in life he was zealous for the Lord and trusted in him; in later years he sought man's help over God's, and even imprisoned a prophet who displeased him. Saved or unsaved? You could make a good argument for either position, but in the final analysis, we just don't know.
How exactly did one get SAVED before the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus? Seems to me, if it was possible for folks to get SAVED before the sacrifice of Jesus, Jesus was wasting his time. Surely you guys aren't saying that are you?
Now, did God send Solomon, David, Moses, etc., to hell. Doubt it. Were they "saved"? How could they be? Brings up interesting questions though.
First of all please be careful using the words 'heresy' 'heretic' and heretical.
There are many Baptists who believe in the absolute predestination of all things, including sin.
I disagree with that understanding of Is. 45:7 which teaches the evil God creates is sin.
Many things are evil, but not necessarily sin or even sinful.
Secondly, many who do believe that way try to use the things that happened to Job to support their belief, but the things that befell Job were not created or caused by God; but through the influence of Satan and by the depraved hearts of men; the result of the whirlwind is certainly evil to our minds, but not sinful.
Further, those saved since Adam through the last one brought in have and will continue to be saved by Grace through faith in the promised kinsman redeemer.
This was taught in a figure to Adam, Abraham, and all the OT saints.
This means there has never been any other way than by Grace through the shed blood of Christ.
Hey Frogman, go into a bit more depth about the saving grace of the shed blood being taught since Adam and people before Christ was crucified being able to get saved. That's nothing I have ever heard of. I don't see how one can get saved before that which makes it possible has even happened. I know Jesus was prophesied, but since Adam?
I am preparing for our midweek Bible Study and Prayer meeting.
After our services this evening I will present a Biblical view of the topic.
Consider this for now, Gen. 3:21; God provided coats of skin for Adam and Eve.
What did he do this for? Adam had already sewn fig leaves together to cover their nakedness.
Note also that vs. 21 is after vs. 15; Adam calls Eve, 'eve' because she is the mother of all living;
The prophecy is through the seed of the woman at this time in vs. 15
Then note the birth of Cain, Ch. 4: Cain means acquisition, Eve said, I have gotten a man from God, this showed her faith toward the promise, Adam's earlier naming her Eve shows his faith toward the promise (The promise sacrifice, typified by the death of the animal for which God provided garments of 'covering' for Adam and his wife.) Covering in the Hebrew is the word 'atonement' translated for us, it is kaphar, in Ex. 29 I think you will find it used in the way of a covering, something covered and to cover. These three usages describes the atonenment of the blood given upon the altar (Lev. 11:17)
You can trace this knowledge of all bringing a blood sacrifice, since Adam, Abel (of whom Heb. 13:27 says the blood of Christ speaks of better things than that of Abel (I think it is Heb. 13:27 but I am hurrying so check it may be another vs.)
What better things does the blood of Christ speak of?
But this is only the beginning of the trail of the blood of the Lamb of God in scripture; and Christ is the end of it; that which is in between all looked forward to His coming.
See the promise to Abraham, Gen.12 (renewed continually with Isaac, Jacob, and so on through the line of David).
Hope that helps, I will say more later if you wish and anyone else is more than welcome to jump in if they wish.
May God Bless,