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Was Sin committed?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Jan 17, 2009.

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  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Genesis 16:1-4
    In this passage Sarai encourage Hagar to conceive with Abram.

    There was no direct commandment against Adultery. There was a general custom to have multiple wives.

    So was sin committed by any and or all three? If not then why did Sarai say in verse 5 "My wrong be upon thee"?
     
    #1 Salty, Jan 17, 2009
  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
    Genesis 16:5 AV 1873

    Then Sarai said to Abram, “May the wrong done to me be on you! I gave my slave-girl to your embrace, and when she saw that she had conceived, she looked on me with contempt. May the LORD judge between you and me!”
    Genesis 16:5 NRSV

    Then Sarai said to Abram, “This is all your fault! I put my servant into your arms, but now that she’s pregnant she treats me with contempt. The LORD will show who’s wrong—you or me!”
    Genesis 16:5 NLT

    Then Sarai said to Abram, “You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my servant in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the LORD judge between you and me.”
    Genesis 16:5 TNIV

    Then Sarai said to Abram, “You are responsible for my suffering! I put my slave in your arms, and ever since she saw that she was pregnant, she has looked down on me. May the LORD judge between me and you.”
    Genesis 16:5 HCSB

    Genesis 41
    Vs 1 Problem presented (no child)

    Vs 2 Sarai’s proposal
    Vs 2 Abram’s response
    Vs 3 Sarai’s action
    Vs 4 Abram’s response
    Vs 5 Hagar’s actions
    Vs 5 Sarai’s response/charge
    Vs 6 Abram’s proposal
    Vs 6 Sarai’s response

    As patriarchal (family) leader, Abram was responsible for everything that happened.
    He didn’t have to listen to his wife, if he did the decision and it’s result was his, not hers.

    Any "sin" that might have occurred in this episode, happened under the leadership and responsibility of Abram.
    And Sarai knew that!

    Rob
     
    #2 Deacon, Jan 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2009
  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    {note bold is my emphasis}

    The question is: did Abram (or any of the 3) sin?
     
    #3 Salty, Jan 17, 2009
  4. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    Distrusting God is sin isn't it, they tried to make God's promise happen believing God had failed them, His promise wasn't going to be fulfilled. Tried to take control of the situation.
    Abram and Sarai sinned, I don't know about Hagar, never thought about it.

    was there a direct commandment against murder when cain killed abel.
    God created a husband and wife to become one, how many women can a man be one with, if all of him isn't one with one woman he isn't one with any of them. Being with more then one woman, or having more then one wife goes against God's saying the husband and wife are one. (wanted better wording but couldn't think of it, I'm in a hurry got things to do today)
     
    #4 donnA, Jan 17, 2009
  5. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    No, Abram didn't sin but he missed the mark. :tongue3:
    He didn't walk in the path God planned.

    I don't see that Abram directly sinned in disobedience but as Donna said, "they tried to make God's promise happen".
    That doesn't work.... (I've tried it :tonofbricks: ).

    Perhaps it's part of Abram's growing in the wisdom and knowledge of God.

    Rob
     
    #5 Deacon, Jan 17, 2009
  6. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Abram sinned by taking his servant-girl and having relations. God gave a pattern of "one man-one wife-for life" when he joined Adam and Eve in the garden. The ancients knew this and were responsible for it.
     
    #6 swaimj, Jan 17, 2009
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Where did Adam's and Eve's sons and daughters get their partners from?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #7 Jim1999, Jan 17, 2009
  8. Ulsterman

    Ulsterman New Member

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    "For whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Rom 14:23b. Seems straight forward enough. What is there to debate?
     
    #8 Ulsterman, Jan 17, 2009
  9. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Monkeys, Jim, Monkeys!
     
    #9 swaimj, Jan 17, 2009
  10. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Two monkeys sitting in a tree
    Discussing things meant to be
    The dire disgrace
    That man even thinks
    He comes from me.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #10 Jim1999, Jan 17, 2009
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    They married their sisters, or brothers, whatever the need.

    Of course if you are a theistic evolution they may have married missing links.

    But back to the OP. Abraham sinned because he did not trust God to fulfill His promise or he lusted after Haggar. Sarah also sinned because she did not trust God to fulfill His promise.
     
    #11 OldRegular, Jan 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2009
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    The op is "What is Sin" please stay on topic

    Usterman, I agree, but Romans had not been written before the time of Abram. Thus is this a case of "ignorance of the law is no excuse"

    Donna brought up a good point - God had not made a commandment against murder - do did Cain commit murder? Hmm

    A third way to ask the question would be - why didn't God give the ten commandments in the Garden of Eden?
     
    #12 Salty, Jan 17, 2009
  13. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I think Abram and Sarai sinned because they did not believe God and wait on Him to provide the son. It was a sin of unbelief, imo.

    As to Hagar, not sure. I don't think she had much choice in the matter and I don't know if she was a believer in the Biblical God or not at the time.
     
    #13 Marcia, Jan 17, 2009
  14. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I'm starting a thread on this (Cain and murder). Go to thread to give views instead of hijacking this one. :wavey:
     
    #14 Marcia, Jan 17, 2009
  15. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    I agree, the sin was lack of faith. God said he would make him father of a great nation yet his wife was old and barren. It would take great faith under those circumstances to wait on the Lord. I have to admit I have lost patience in matters where the odds were greater than Abram.

    Then again, without Ishmael we wouldn't have Muslims or the Holy war. This tells me it was always in Gods master plan.
     
    #15 LeBuick, Jan 17, 2009
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