was The Primary reason For The Cross The Love Of God, or His Holiness/Glory?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

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    Did He elect to save us through the death of Christ on the Cross based upon Either His Love for mankind, or due to Him glorifing His name and showing off His Glory, His holiness, and the saving man a by product of that?.
     
  2. Aaron

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    ................Yes.
     
  3. JesusFan

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    to both reasons?
     
  4. quantumfaith

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    My vote....His Love was the motivation. His glory is the result.
     
  5. TomVols

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    Yes is a great answer. Remember that all is for God's glory. Our sin makes us guilty of falling short of what? God's holiness? Nope. All have sinned and fall short of God's glory (Rom 3:23).
     
  6. Amy.G

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  7. David Lamb

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    Is it an either/or matter? To use Adrian Monk's catchphrase, "I don't think so." I think we really would be entering a theological "jungle out there" if we tried to work out the relative proportions of God's attributes which lead to the Crucifixion.

    If it were not for His holiness, God would have no need to rid sinners of their sins - they could come to heaven with all their guilt. The "wages" of sin would not be death.

    If it were not for His love, God would have no desire to forgive sinners.

    If it were not for His omnipotence, God would have no power to forgive sinners.

    We could say similar things for all of God's attributes.
     
  8. Luke2427

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    It was primarily for his glory.

    If God sets something above his own glory then God is guilty of idolatry.

    If God loves man more than his own glory then God has made an idol of man.

    So God's primary motive for the cross is his own glory.

    What confuses people is this: it is his LOVE that He is glorifying on the cross. It is not ONLY his love but it is his love that is being glorified there along with his holiness, etc...

    He is COMMENDING or SHOWING his own love in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

    Ephesians 2 reminds us that he has quickened us who were dead in trespasses and sins... that in the ages to come he might SHOW the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

    The whole UNIVERSE exists for the glory of God's great LOVE in his bestowal of grace upon sinners. This is not the only reason the universe exists but it is one of the main reasons.
     
  9. Luke2427

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    God could have made the universe so that the cross would not have been necessary.

    He could have made a universe where man would never fall. Then he could love on them all day forever.

    He did not.

    He made a universe where the cross would be necessary because he made a universe where man was destined to fall.

    By sending the second person of the godhead to the cross, the Son who has forever been generating from the Father, God SHOWS the awesome measure of his love. This is for his glory.

    There is no display of Calvary love without a fallen universe- Calvary exists to bring God glory for the inestimable measure of his love in his bestowal of grace upon sinners.
     
  10. quantumfaith

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    With all due respect, I simply disagree with your reasoning here. I remain convinced that Calvary and salvation exist due to God's Love for His creation. The agreed upon fact of God's asiety argues that He does not "need" glory. Perhaps, just a thought here, pardon the science analogy, Love and Glory are "diatomic" much like the oxygen molecule. They demand and require one another.
     
  11. Robert Snow

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  12. Robert Snow

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    {snip}
    According to your view, God created man only to glorify His name. {Snip}
     
    #12 Robert Snow, Jul 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2011
  13. quantumfaith

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  14. Amy.G

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  15. Dr. Bob

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    Our salvation is "collateral". God's GRACE is the goal, the focus, the purpose. God's GRACE is to receive praise and glory.

    That He could show GRACE in the most magnificent manner was to turn rebels and hell-bound wretches like me into a loving child running TO Him instead of fighting AGAINST Him is the most wondrous blessing to His elect.

    I am saved because there was no better way to show GRACE and glorify GRACE. Now that said, this was ALWAYS God's plan. In eternity past God selected me to receive that grace (out of all the hell-bound wretches - why me?) and show that glory.

    So my election by the Father, redemption by the Son, regeneration by the Spirit, and my subsequent repentance/faith/new life were all purposed a gajillion years ago to show His GRACE unparalleled.
     
  16. convicted1

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    The cross, and the death thereon, was the only way to reconcile mankind back to God. Jesus came to pay a debt He didn't owe, because we owed a debt we couldn't pay.

    The only remedy for sin, was the shedding of blood. The innocent for the guilty, so to speak. Under the OT, an innocent animal's life was taken to "pay"(in the OT, it only stayed their sins) for their sins. Jesus came and did this once for all, and became the High Priest forevermore. He built a Bridge that spanned the "great gulf", which is sin, and paved this Bridge with His blood.

    By doing this, God is glorified in saving sinners from their sins.
     
  17. Luke2427

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    It does not matter if you disagree. Scripture is clear. Calvary exists to SHOW God's love.

    God quickens sinners that in the ages to come he might show forth the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

    The highest good in the universe is the glory of God.

    To have as a primary motive anything above that is sin.

    For God to be motivated primarily by anything else than his own glory is for God to become an idolater and worship something other than himself.

    God must put worth where it rightfully goes.

    Even God cannot make something of higher worth than himself and his glory.

    If God did Calvary PRIMARILY because of his love for man then God counted man of greater worth than his own glory. This would be sin.

    God cannot have INORDINATE affection and to love man above his own glory is just that.

    EVERYTHING in the universe exists primarily for the glory of God.

    Understanding this is essential to having a biblical and God-centered theology.
     
  18. Aaron

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    Yes. God is love.
     
  19. Robert Snow

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    What a sad concept. :tear:

    God created all this, including all the suffering and pain, just so He could get glory? I don't see how this could be consistent with the message of God's love toward His creation, reveled in the bible.
     
  20. freeatlast

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    I would guess that He saves us because of Love which glorifies Him due to His holiness.
     

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